Driving with Altzheimers

[nellieb]

Hi, my dad was diagnosed with early dementia 18 months ago and he is deteriorating slowly. However, as yet we have not contacted the DVLA about his driving because he insists we may as well just kill him if they take his car away. He doesn't drive far usually but has got seriously lost twice in the last six months - the most recent being last week when he should have been in Redbourn, Herts but was found in Inner London. He gets very upset and frustrated and then blames my mum for getting him diagnosed. As far as he is concerned he is fully, physically fit (which for an 81 year old he is) but he cannot understand that although he can drive he is having problems processing the information around him because of his memory problems. I want the DVLA to be advised and let them make a decision but my mum and brother don't because it upsets dad.
I have upset them all by suggesting its time to give up the car. Help - what do you think?

 

[Sandy]

Hi nellieb,

Welcome to Talking Point (TP).

You might want to look at the Alzheimer's Society's factsheet on Driving:

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=144

The key thing to note is:

If someone receives a diagnosis of dementia and wants to continue to drive, they must, by law, inform the DVLA. Notification of the diagnosis should be sent with the person's full name, address, date of birth and the driver number on the driving licence, if known, to the Drivers Medical Group (see 'Useful organisations').

Also the insurance company must be informed.

If your father was to have an accident and the DVLA and insurance company had not been informed, it is quite possible that any damages caused (and let's hope they would just be to property and not people) would not be covered by insurance - leaving your parents open to claims that could amount to thousands, or even tens of thousands of pounds.

As you will see from the factsheet, notifying the DVLA doesn't not mean that your father will automatically be disqualified from driving. He could, for example, be asked to go to an assessment centre to show that he is still a capable and safe driver. If he's not, he should not be on the road.

It's difficult when your mother and brother are trying to avoid rocking the boat, which is understandable on an emotional level, but is not really facing up to the reality of the situation and the potential dangers.

This is an issue that comes up fairly regularly on TP, but it's no less difficult for being a frequent problem.

Some people do go down the 'white lie' route and make excuses that the car is not working (doing something like removing spark plugs to prevent it from working) and saying that it will cost hundreds of pounds to repair.

Take care,

 

[mcgradie]

Hi Nellie

Our mum also 81 was diagnosed June 2010 and her consultant said the DLVA had to be notified of her diagnosis by law. So I don't understand why your dad's doctor hasn't stressed the same thing.

Our mum was issued a new one-year license which is due to be reviewed again in october. Her doctor said many people with a dementia diagnosis carry on driving for up to 3 years. So your dad may not have his license taken away.

I do think your dad needs to take shorter journeys now - our mum rarely goes more than 2 or 3 miles away. We talk about how old her car is and how it's better if we take her if it's a necessary trip.

Hope that helps. Good for you for wanting to do the right thing. Our mum will I know be devastated in october if she isn't issued a new license but better safe, eh?

Good luck.

 

[sue38]

You may want to show this booklet to your dad

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/download_info.php?fileID=729

 

[nellieb]

Thanks Sandy,

I just finished reading the Fact Sheet and I thought that would be case. I have printed it off and will speak to my brother again. Will the DVLA accept the information from a third party if my dad won't volunteer a signature I wonder. Try as I might to speak to my dad he just cannot understand that although he can phyically drive its not enough - this is such a cruel disease. Both mum and dad are subdued and depressed today and I made them both like it.

 

[nellieb]

You may want to show this booklet to your dad

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/download_info.php?fileID=729

Thank you this is very useful too.

 

[grove]

Hello Nellibed , Hello & Welcome to T Point you will find it a very supportive place & you will have lots of good help here

Am to read about your Dad & his Altz & Driving , it is not easy for the loved ones in the Family to come to terms with when your Dad was dignosed with Altz & having to "Give Up " things like Driving is harder still for your Dad ,Mum & Brother to deal with

My Dad also has Dementia since 2009 & in 2010 he haD 2 " Un Safe " Driving "Does " as i called them ( i do not Drive ) but was in the Car both times & knew Dad was not safe to Drive ( Mum had not helped as she had been helping him by pointing out the Route etc ) I was lucky ( srange word to use i gess but hope you understand ) in that my Sister was worried & also Dad's GP was also my GP & i was able to sort it out via the G P who sorted out the DVLA bit . Dad then had a letter from the DVLA telling Him he was "Unfit to Drive " Dad was given the chance to take a Driving Re Test but he never went & did it because he for got ( he has short Term Memory )
Am sympathetic to your problem does your Mum / Brother drive ? could they not take your Dad to where he wants to go ? & your Mum & Bother need advice first about your Dad & Driving then they will see its best he does not Drive . If you go onto the main Altz Web Page you can get a New Info Book all about what you need to know etc ,Its called :

Dementia & Driving am sure that will help you all & you doing the right thing in wanting DVLA informed

Do hope that helps & hope your Mum & Brother are able to agree with your veiw point , sorry for long ramble ! ! !

Best Wishes & am sure othes on T P will give more advice soon ( i had 13 replies when i put a simlar Thread on ! ! ! )

Love Grove P S Please do Post on an Up Date of what is sorted out with your Dad x x

 

[Sandy]

Hi Nellie,

It might also be worth getting the GP involved to write to the DVLA.

The General Medical Council has changed their advice on this point and now GP's can do this in some circumstances:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/debates/2990973/Doctors-told-they-must-report-unfit-drivers-to-the-DVLA.html

http://www.gmc-uk.org/Confidentiality_reporting_concerns_DVLA_2009.pdf_27494214.pdf

Don't blame yourself for raising a difficult issue, even if it makes things more downbeat in the short-term - it is not something that will go away.

You might also want to look at the AS factsheet on things to consider after a diagnosis:

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=122

and the one on depression:

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=139

It might be helpful to ring the AS Helpline for a bit of moral support:

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents.php?categoryID=200365

Take care,

 

[nellieb]

Hi Nellie

Our mum also 81 was diagnosed June 2010 and her consultant said the DLVA had to be notified of her diagnosis by law. So I don't understand why your dad's doctor hasn't stressed the same thing.

Our mum was issued a new one-year license which is due to be reviewed again in october. Her doctor said many people with a dementia diagnosis carry on driving for up to 3 years. So your dad may not have his license taken away.

I do think your dad needs to take shorter journeys now - our mum rarely goes more than 2 or 3 miles away. We talk about how old her car is and how it's better if we take her if it's a necessary trip.

Hope that helps. Good for you for wanting to do the right thing. Our mum will I know be devastated in october if she isn't issued a new license but better safe, eh?

Good luck.

I remember being shocked by the diagnosis when we spoke with the consultant and much of the information given at the time was not taken in (not helped by myself suffering from depression at the time too).

Dad normally only pops down to the shops less than a mile away but on a Monday he goes to his club where he meets friends for darts etc., and this is probably about five miles away. We don't where it is and he can't remember the address but he can drive there. No doubt we will get it sorted out. Thanks for your help.

 

[Liz Saunders]

I sympathise with you, i had an awful time stopping my Dad from driving, in fact his driving skills were one of the factors i stated to the GP when I took him to see her. He insisted that 'he had been driving for over 30 years' but as the GP pointed out, if you have dementia you wouldn't realise you had problems! Long story short, 6 months down the line he has just been diagnosed with vasD, alz and also the MRI scan showed he had had a stroke (we can't pinpoint when but it would have been when he was still driving) which badly affects decision making etc. It was awful stopping him, family agreed with me but didn't actually want to tell Dad themselves so he took it that i was just being mean!! Thankfully when it was time for his insurance renewal the company wrote saying they could no longer insure him, so pressure off me and has asked me to sell his car. In short, not easy, independance etc. but what if somebody is hurt or worse? I personally think older people should be re-tested after a certain age, dementia or not as reactions slow down. Good luck! x

 

[Katrine]

Informing DVLA

Will the DVLA accept the information from a third party?

Yes, you can just ring them and inform them. It is confidential in that the person doesn't know who has provided the information; he will receive a letter informing him of a 'third party' notification of a medical condition that might make him unsafe to drive. He will also be required by DVLA to fill in a medical questionnaire and will be recommended to ask his GP for advice and information about his current medical status.

Not all GPs want to get involved, it depends on whether a consultant has already stated that the person should not drive. If not, the GP will probably waffle on about probabilities and risk, which the driver will then choose to ignore. However, it is an offence for your father to make false statements; he must not lie on the medical form. I have asked DVLA if they would prosecute a person with dementia who lied on the form, and they refused to be drawn on the question! In law, yes they can.

Yes phoning DVLA yourself seems like a betrayal, it's horrible to be the agent of that major piece of independence being taken away. However, despite what our elders seem to think, no-one has the 'right' to drive just because they have had a driving licence in the past. It is really tough for young people to pass their driving test nowadays, and I think most of us know that our parents could not pass the modern tests.

We must protect other people from dangerous drivers. Confused elderly people with slow reaction times and the inability to process complex information in order to make safe decisions are dangerous drivers. Some people with dementia can still drive for a while, but if family already feel unsafe with the person, or that person gets lost when they are out driving, IMHO they are not safe and should stop a.s.a.p. I hope I have the good grace to accept what my children tell me when my turn comes.

 

[catherine1]

dementia or cognitive impairment

My mum has been told by the memory clinic that she has cognitive impairment which may or may not lead to dementia. I ask them about driving every time I see them and they say there is no reason why she should not drive( I beg to differ and just keep fingers crossed there is never an accident) She only does local trips though and would not go out of her comfort zone.She quite often loses her car of picks up car park tickets. she bought a sat nav as she wanted to go further afield but luckily she couldn't work out how to use it and I wasn't going to volunteer to show her.I am not sure if I should be telling DVLA or not now though - i think again it's a case of having all the responsibility but not able to actually do anything. She gets furious if I mention not driving so I keep my mouth shut. So I will take the experts advice (ie memory clinic) and keep fingers firmly crossed.

 

[Sox]

Hello Nellieb - I totally agree with all the previous posts. When the Consultant gave my husband the diagnosis of AZ she explained that the DVLA must be informed, which I did. At the time my husband understood the reasoning behind it, had a driving assessment, which he passed and was given a licence for 3 years. About 18 months later various things happened to make me feel he was becoming unsafe when driving and I rang the DVLA myself and asked for a further assessment. He did not know that I had done this and I felt really bad about it but I would have felt worse if he had gone out and killed someone. He took the second assessment and his driving was so bad the Assessor had to stop the test half way through (he had nearly knocked a person down on a pedestrian crossing!!). I was so relieved that my judgement had been proved correct and the Assessor was brilliant and stressed to my husband that it was not my fault that it was him who had stopped him driving. He told him in front of me that he must hand over his car keys and that I must keep them safe. We sold his car (with his agreement) and he was very upset for a few weeks, but gradually forgot about it. I do hope you are able to get this sorted out with your family. Take care. Sox

 

[sue38]

Just to add you must inform the Insurance company of a diagnosis of dementia, otherwise the insurance policy could be void.

 

[creativesarah]

I have had to give up driving I am 56 and we live in a rural area where the buses have been axed recently down to 2 a day (both very early in the morning) I rely on friends and people sometimes wonder if i could start driving again at the moment I dont think so, it is frustrating but I would hate to hurt or kill someone else

 

[Bronwen]

Hello and welcome..just to add my experience to our other TP friends. My husband (at 73 years old) was diagnosed with dementia and the Consultant at the Memory Clinic told us quite clearly that now he had been diagnosed we had to contact DVLA and could apply for a driving assessment. My husband was so reluctant to do this and i thought it was bad enough that he had to come to the terms he had dementia, so I held back for a while. However, his driving was getting worrying, with stopping at green lights and stopping to give way to other cars whilst he was on a roundabout..eventually I had a private talk to our GP, who very kindly spoke to my husband and pointed out about the insurance being void etc and if there was an accident he would never forgive himself and he came home and was so upset..in fact, it took him months to stop fretting about it and I have never told him I instigated the Dr. giving him advice, but it had to be done. One of the hardest things I have had to do since this horrid disease took over our lives.

Keep posting

love
Bonwen x

 

[Countryboy]

well been here on this subject before I was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s in 1999 and FTD in 2003 after eleven years I’m still driving no accidents or convictions and I drive every day I’m just glad my family support me and are happy for me to Drive dementia hasn’t effected my driving at all there again I do hit dementia head on and it doesn’t worry me one bit

Tony

 

[nellieb]

Update - Driving with Alzheimers

Thank you to everyone who took the time and trouble and reply to my plea - it is great to know there is some support out there as it can feel kind of lonely sometimes. I have contacted the DVLA, with my brother's blessing but my mum is still very worried by it. They are going to write to my dad and say they were contacted by a third party so we will not be implicated (hopefully). He will probably assume it was the police as they took him off to the police station when he was lost in central London. It turns out his insurance company has not been advised either and we are sorting that out too. I am expecting repercussions in due course but rather that than my dad or someone else being hurt.

My mum says that the doctor has had the results of a blood test that indicates my dad has mild dementia. I don't know anything about bloodtesting for dementia - if anyone out there does I would be interested to hear from you.

 

[Gill40]

Hi

On the day my mum was diagnosed with Alzheimers, the consultant told her she was not to drive, this was not too much of a shock as mum had said she would stop driving when she was 80, but she did seem a little reluctant, after so many years of being able to drive, is understandable. We were pleased the consultant said this as we were getting a bit worried about her with driving, even though she seemed fine behind the wheel. Of course, a few days later she completely forgot and went to the shops in the car, so we had to take it away, my nephew is buying it from her, as was always going to happen when mum stopped driving, so now, it foot, bus and us to take her out, she seems fine with this. Hope everthing goes well for you with your dad. x

 

[nellieb]

Driving with Alzheimers update

Thank you to those of you who took the time to add their comments and advice to my thread.

To update you, I did contact the DVLA and they sent the forms to my dad asking for his general details and permission to contact his medical practitioners. He did sign the form himself for I did feel slightly guilty as I told him it was just a request to contact his doctor because of his age. He recently received a letter from the DVLA saying he can continue to drive for the time being whilst they make further enquiries. My mum has also told the insurance company which unfortunately also incurred an additional £100 per month on each installment.

Dad had a re-assessment this week and he has not got any worse or any better in the past six months. The doctor told me that giving up driving is always the most contentious thing a person with dementia has to deal with but it is the DVLA who make the final decision, not the doctors or the family, which is a relief to us.

So that's where we are at the moment - I will update again when we get notification from the DVLA.