Driving license

[Alibaba80]

Hi All,

My mum aged 75 has been referred to the memory clinic after I raised concerns about her mental wellbeing. The nurse asked me if I thought her driving was safe and I said personally I don't think so. Now the nurse has sent mum a letter saying she's to stop as of 31st August. I've not seen the letter, I live 115 miles away and Mum even denied that she had the letter until yesterday. She says she's going to carry on driving because who would know!

I don't know what to do and feel that this is all my fault. Is she legally able to drive until she is contacted by DVLA. Mum says she can no longer live because she can't go out to get shopping, Drs, hairdressers etc. That's not true she has a food shop in walking distance and I have suggested taxi, bus, dial a ride but her only reply was 'I won't do that'. I'm trying to help but don't know how.

Thankfully the memory nurse is coming for her initial appointment at mum's house on Tuesday. My Dad died in June so I am still dealing with that and now that he's gone the severity of mum's condition seems to have come to light.

Any advice would be grateful.

 

[Beate]

A nurse cannot decide that, only the DVLA can, but you must let them know of the diagnosis so they can make a decision. However, I'm sure the nurse means well, and if you yourself are concerned about the driving, I'd advise you not to wait for an accident but sneakily disable your mum's car, hide the keys or remove it, telling her it's at the garage for repairs.

 

[Oh Knickers]

Alibaba,

Your mum is now no longer covered by insurance to drive. She has been advised not to drive and therefore needs to tell the insurers. It is not so much should she get injured but should she injure someone else.

Beate has given good advice. Get the car taken away for a 'service' and remove the keys.

It also sounds as though your mum could possibly do with more activities. It must be hard when you are so far away to try and organise things. If you approach the following organisations they will be able to guide you. Scroll down the page, put in your mum's postcode and the local contact number will come up.

Alzheimer's Society
www.alzheimers.org.uk

Age UK
http://www.ageuk.org.uk/

Best of luck.

 

[jugglingmum]

I think if anything came to court and a medical professional has informed someone in writing they are not safe to drive that would be fairly conclusive (I was advised by a physio after a caesarean it may not be safe to drive for 6 weeks, and I made sure I asked her if she was telling me I couldn't drive for 6 weeks as I had had advice from a close solicitor friend about the legal position before hand and knew I had to challenge to ensure I could drive when ready - I drove after 4 weeks)

Only DVLA can remove a licence but a qualified medical professional would not send a letter lightly, and so your mum should not be driving and is legally required to informed DVLA that she has had this letter.

As Oh knickers states, now this is writing your mum is no longer insured and isn't safe to drive.

I didn't realise my mum had dementia and it's full impact until a crisis, I then had sleepless nights for months (to the point of nightmares) because I hadn't realised and I had let my mum continue to drive with my children in her car when she was no longer safe to do so.

In my opinion you need to remove the keys, disable the car (remove a battery lead for example) or better still remove it (for a service - which then needs multiple hard to obtain parts - blame someone else - you know what modern cars are like type of phrase) and make sure her regular garage are aware of the position.

This is not your fault - it is dementia's fault. Your mum is no longer safe to drive, and so letting her carry on and risk someone else's life (my mum was very close to driving the wrong way down a dual carriageway from her mumbled working out what had happened thoughts) is not an option.

 

[Alibaba80]

Thank you all. I'm hoping the memory clinic nurse who is visiting Mum tomorrow will clarify the situation. I don't think my Mum realises the severity but she also doesn't seem to think there is anything wrong with her. I'm not able to do anything with the car as I'm not visiting again until the end of the month. And I don't have time or access to plan any trips to the garage.
Mum is not a social person and has a very strict routine which I think is part of her symptoms. I have suggested that she join groups in the past and she always agrees saying that's a good idea but then never acts on it. She does that with anything that means change.
My family are sadly not supporting the nurses decision about driving and also seem to think I have not handled the situation very well. Feeling very stressed.

 

[Oh Knickers]

Alibaba,

There are two threads here. Your mum has been advised by a professional not to drive. It is not up to your family to argue the toss on this one.

In the end I wrote to the DVLA with my concerns and they revoked her licence. They do not say who the informant is. You could blame the person who wrote the letter. The alternative is that your mum does a driving assessment. Say it is free to all good drivers. She is likely to refuse. But that is then part of your evidence.

Secondly, your mum has dementia. In her mind she is fine and it is the rest of the world that is out of kilter. This is when you need to be making the decisions for her own welfare and safety.

If your mum is unable to take the bus she then needs to use a taxi. Sibling phoned round the taxi firms and one was able to set up an account for only mother to use. There was a limit set on how much could be spent each week. Explain it as it is a treat
for your mum.

Frankly, if your mum is unable to remember how to use the taxi she absolutely should not be driving.

 

[canary]

I agree entirely with Oh Knickers. Once your mum has has had notification from a health professional that they should not drive then they should stop driving and notify the DVLA. Unfortunately, with dementia they frequently think that they are OK and do not inform them. This is why you need to inform DVLA,

OK is also correct that if your mum continues driving having been told that they should not be driving then their insurance is invalid and should they be in an accident (God forbid) then they will not be covered for any damage.

I think that this is a hard part of dementia. Many people take the lost of independence very hard, but it is not about that - its about safety, both hers and other peoples.

 

[Pacucho]

Hello,

I see you have already received good advice.

One comment I would like to add is that whatever happens please try and make sure that your mum does not see YOU as the person who took her driving licence and car away, even if you have to become involved. Whatever action is taken you may need to continually remind her that it was the nurse and DVLA who took this decision, otherwise she may see you as a target for any frustration or anger that may arise.
Hope this helps,

Paco

 

[Alibaba80]

Thank you all, yes I think that Mum does see all of this as my fault which is possibly being fuelled by other family members. I think a huge part of the problem is that she still hasn't actually been diagnosed. The memory assessment went well today (according to her and my Aunt) but she is to have a CT scan and an appointment with a Dr so the nurse obviously feels that Mun is suffering from something.
Having spoken to Mum tonight she seems more upset about this than the recent death of my Dad. Although I do sympathise that this is all a lot of change very quickly. The nurse told her that she could appeal but would need to contact her HP which she is going to do. Hopefully he will reiterate that she can't drive.
Mum only seems concerned that she won't be able to do the things she usually does, I've have tried to confirm to her that she can but will just get there in a different way. But she says she can't think straight and I tthink this 'fog' is all part of her symptoms.

It still makes me feel like a bad person for starting all this off though.

 

[Oh Knickers]

Alibaba. what I see is someone who is being responsible and also caring. You are being responsible about your mum's and other people's safety. It is a toughie as, as you have experienced, others are unable to - or do not want to - see it.

You can drop a note to the GP expressing your concerns regarding her driving and asking them to arrange a driving assessment or ask mum to do one. They very well may not do that. However, make it clear you do not want your mum to know it came from you. Once you have evidence of her refusal you can then write to the DVLA. The alternative is that you say the GP says there is a scheme to reduce insurance costs by doing the driving assessment. However, what would you do were, in the unlikely event, your mum to pass?

I told the DVLA about mother's driving. Her retirement home were increasingly worried and there was growing evidence of bashes in 6 months. I had negotiated with a very difficult family member regarding this. With their agreement I sent the letter, I suspect, and I can't prove it, that that sibling then told my mother. Jubilate Deo! So, so do I understand how difficult it can be? Yup, with knobs on!

 

[Amy in the US]

Alibaba, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Please accept my condolences on the recent passing of your father. You certainly have more than enough on your plate at the moment.

I can understand why you feel badly, but please remember that you are not a bad person and you haven't done anything wrong. You are not the problem, the dementia is the problem, and you didn't cause that. Please try not to be so hard on yourself. I know it's much easier said than done, but please try.

I wonder what sort of support you have for yourself, with everything you're dealing with? Maybe a support group near where you live (for dementia and/or grief), or someone to talk to like a counselor or therapist, might be helpful?

Also, not to add to your list of things to do, but do you have PoA for your mother?

Regarding your mother giving up the car: I know it's not an easy or pleasant situation, but if you feel your mother is not safe driving, then it's the right thing to do, and I applaud you.

My mother (75, Alzheimer's, now in a care home) was not safe driving and I did not do anything about it. She had two car accidents that I know of, although mercifully nobody was injured. If she had caused someone's injury or death, because I didn't stop her from driving, I would never have been able to live with myself. I lost a lot of sleep over this and other issues, until she was finally in a safe situation.

Again, you are not a bad person for being caring and concerned and doing the right thing. I appreciate it may not feel that way. (I often feel that with dementia, no matter what I do, it's never the "right" thing. I expect others know what I mean.)

I also think that you must be overwhelmed between the recent loss of your father and now trying to get your mother diagnosed and care set up, especially from a distance. It's never easy, but dealing with dementia long distance is very challenging (been there and have the t-shirt). I found it a very steep learning curve at first, so do please try to be patient with yourself. Again, I know that's easy to say and not easy to do.

It's definitely not easy, but there is a lot of collective experience and wisdom here on TP, and I hope you'll find it a helpful resource. Best wishes.

 

[Gemdar]

Alibaba

I've just joined the forum after lurking for a while as your post has struck such a chord with me.

My mum, also 75, recently widowed (lost my dad in March) is undergoing assessment for dementia and doctor has said not to drive. Mum sees this as a further bereavement and frequently blames me and/or my sibling for stopping her driving so we keep reminding her it's the doctor decision and 'it's only for now'.

I don't really have any useful advice as I'm in a similar position to you but I just wanted to offer my support. It's tough loving your mum when having to do the right thing hurts them futher. Xx

 

[Saffie]

Only DVLA can remove a licence but a qualified medical professional would not send a letter lightly, and so your mum should not be driving and is legally required to informed DVLA that she has had this letter.

My husband's GP contacted the DVLA after a routine appointment when my husband's symptoms were still relatively mild and within a week he received a letter from the DVLA asking him to return his licence by a certain date. He was very upset but fortunately responded with the attitude that if they wanted it they could have it immediately and he went straight out in the car to post it, gave the keys to me and said that's it!
The GP said that if my husband had caused an accident and someone was hurt or killed, he would never have forgiven himself and neither would my husband.

We later went on a Memory Matters course run by the Memory clinic and a lady there had sever dementia but was still driving, her daughter said she only drove locally. You can still kill someone within a 100 yards of your home!


Why do GPs not do this? It does not necessarily mean the end of driving as a there is a test that can be taken to determine whether a person is safe to drive or not. We have members here with dementia who have passed this.

 

[Jaxxmal]

Same here

We are also in this position. Father in law,not yet diagnosed but with some clear evidence of some kind of dementia was told on Friday that he "should not be driving". GP explained clearly why-lack of memory and ability to understand road signs (I think this was from his brief memory test). He is now waiting for in depth assessment at memory clinic but is furious with my hubby as its "all his fault".
This we have let go because at the end of the day this is how he feels in his reality but we just didn't know what to do about car.
M in law thinks he's "ok just driving around the village" , f in law states "no way is anyone getting my car" -I have told hubby that if nothing is done to solve this I'm reporting to DVLA myself. Think rest of family are waiting for him to "let go" but I think, like others above have said, he feels he is fit to drive. All very sad but I'm not having him kill himself or others so I'm happy to be the bad one!

 

[danonwheels]

Why do GPs not do this? It does not necessarily mean the end of driving as a there is a test that can be taken to determine whether a person is safe to drive or not. We have members here with dementia who have passed this.

Yes, I'm one of them. For how long I don't know but I'm making the most of it for now.

 

[JenHampshire]

Not fit to drive

My husband failed a DVLA test in January 2015 and had to surrender his licence then.
He has NEVER accepted this and says he is a good driver and never had an accident, which was true.
Most days he asks where his car is, surprised it is not in the garage and then decides he will get another.
Fortunately he has not taken my keys and attempted to drive mine. It is so tedious trying to explain this so often, knowing he will never take it on board.
Does anyone else have this problem? He is 81 and in the 7th year with dementia.

 

[Scotsguy2017]

I hope it works out.

I reported my father after his 2nd crash to the DVLA. I felt terrible and still do. However they have not acted quickly. Today a 3rd crash (no one gets hurt thank god). They only sent a letter 2 weeks after my initial report.

I'm at my wits end. All I get from the GP nothing they can do until he comes down or something bad happens.

Anyway I would encourage taxis, dail a journey. Even though its not worked yet. Quietly bring it up now and then. Best wishes.