Does anyone have experience of top up fees to 12 wk disregard

[Miss Elli]

Long story short ... after a brief spell in hospital Mum was moved into the only home that felt able to meet her needs (via the bed bureau), which happened to be in our town and it's a lovely home with amazing staff so I was very happy with the outcome.

Problem is I didn't realise that Mum's placement was a 'step down bed' and now after a SS assessment of Mum I have been told that the local authority won't pay the 12 wk disregard in the price tier of home she is in (it really isn't one of the most expensive) and SS have started to search for another suitable (cheaper) placement.

I am very happy with where Mum is and Mum seems quite settled, apart from the expected 'I want to go home' conversations when she sees me. I really don't want Mum to be moved again, it isn't in her best interest, particularly as she has spent the last fews weeks in 2 hospitals before finally arriving where she is.

Does anyone have experience of topping up fees as this may be an option to us but using some of Mum's money (she is under the 23,000 bracket), is it something that is easily sorted or can I just insist Mum stays where she is?

 

[nitram]

Is the 12 week disregard because your Mum owns a property?

You can only use you Mum's money as a top up during a property disregard, after that somebody else will have to pay although if a property is sold she will become self funding.

You could try putting together a best interests argument that she should stay where she is, not being along term resident will make this hard.

 

[Wildflowerlady]

Hello @Miss Elli I am sure someone else will be along to advise you but as far as I am aware top up fees cannot be done using your mums money the fee has to come from family. We had similar situation in that my dad had below the threshold of savings but the Care Home my sister wanted dad to move into as literally up the road from her I was told would require a top up fee of £600 per week. I was shocked and there was no way we could have afforded that so dad did remain in the home that Social Services had placed him. Initially dad went in as he needed assessment and the carers he had been having in his own home could no longer cope with him as his dementia had advanced and he was getting a bit aggressive etc. The care home wasn't actually that far away a 15 minute drive for me and was actually nice but sister didn't drive so was more difficult for her. Unfortunately my dads dementia was more advanced than Social Services thought I had been saying dad needed 24/7 care but the system is difficult when someone says they don't want to go into a home and so we had to have a crisis in our case carer company withdrawing their services from a set date. Sadly dads condition accelerated and we lost him in January this year just 2 months after going into the Care Home. Forgot to say dads Social Worker did actually say she didn't think was in dads best interest to be moved anyway as is a upheaval when going into a home he also owned no property as lived in a Housing Association property which was handed back following his passing.

 

[canary]

I am slightly confused. You talk about a 12week disregard, which usually means that there is a property to sell. If this is correct then your mum would be self-funding and she can go wherever. Is it only during this 12week period there is a problem? Generally the person with dementia cannot fund a top up fee - it has to be paid for by a third party. If she is going to be self funded then you could pay and be reimbursed when the house is sold, but if this top up fee would be permanent I would be very wary about taking it on long term as it can go up considerably as her care needs increase.

 

[nitram]

I am slightly confused.

I was confused as well, that's why I queried if it was a property disregard.

A swathe of new rules was introduced because of covid some of which may still apply.

 

[Miss Elli]

I am slightly confused. You talk about a 12week disregard, which usually means that there is a property to sell. If this is correct then your mum would be self-funding and she can go wherever. Is it only during this 12week period there is a problem? Generally the person with dementia cannot fund a top up fee - it has to be paid for by a third party. If she is going to be self funded then you could pay and be reimbursed when the house is sold, but if this top up fee would be permanent I would be very wary about taking it on long term as it can go up considerably as her care needs increase.

Mum has a property to sell but the 12wk disregard is when the local authority cover the care costs for those first 12 weeks while you are selling the prop, after that if you need to you can enter into a deferred payment agreement and the local authority are then paid back on completion of the prop sale + interest.

Basically the local authority must disregard your property in the financial assessment for the first 12weeks of your permanent care home placement, therefore they treat you as if you have no funds. If the property is sold in the 12-week period, the disregard ceases to apply from the date of sale and the proceeds are counted as capital.

 

[Miss Elli]

Hello @Miss Elli I am sure someone else will be along to advise you but as far as I am aware top up fees cannot be done using your mums money the fee has to come from family. We had similar situation in that my dad had below the threshold of savings but the Care Home my sister wanted dad to move into as literally up the road from her I was told would require a top up fee of £600 per week. I was shocked and there was no way we could have afforded that so dad did remain in the home that Social Services had placed him. Initially dad went in as he needed assessment and the carers he had been having in his own home could no longer cope with him as his dementia had advanced and he was getting a bit aggressive etc. The care home wasn't actually that far away a 15 minute drive for me and was actually nice but sister didn't drive so was more difficult for her. Unfortunately my dads dementia was more advanced than Social Services thought I had been saying dad needed 24/7 care but the system is difficult when someone says they don't want to go into a home and so we had to have a crisis in our case carer company withdrawing their services from a set date. Sadly dads condition accelerated and we lost him in January this year just 2 months after going into the Care Home. Forgot to say dads Social Worker did actually say she didn't think was in dads best interest to be moved anyway as is a upheaval when going into a home he also owned no property as lived in a Housing Association property which was handed back following his passing.

Thank you for that, I wasn't sure if we could use Mum's money though I do have LPA. So sorry you lost your Dad.

 

[canary]

Thank you @Miss Elli . I thought that was what you were talking about, but wasn't sure.
As she will be self funding after the disregard period, I can't see why she shouldn't stay there. I think you will have to pay the top up, but you can reimburse yourself once the property is sold. Alternatively, is the care home willing for you to pay the back log once the property is sold?

 

[nitram]

Any top up can be paid from dad's funds using the LPA whilst a disregard applies, thereafter (unless s117 aftercare) it has to be third party.

LAs can give discretionary extensions to the 12 weeks, usually when the property was put on the market without a delay and an agreed sale has floundered.

First party top ups are also allowed under a deferred payment scheme

 

[Miss Elli]

Thank you @Miss Elli . I thought that was what you were talking about, but wasn't sure.
As she will be self funding after the disregard period, I can't see why she shouldn't stay there. I think you will have to pay the top up, but you can reimburse yourself once the property is sold. Alternatively, is the care home willing for you to pay the back log once the property is sold?

good suggestion, it's certainly worth discussing

 

[Miss Elli]

Any top up can be paid from dad's funds using the LPA whilst a disregard applies, thereafter (unless s117 aftercare) it has to be third party.

LAs can give discretionary extensions to the 12 weeks, usually when the property was put on the market without a delay and an agreed sale has floundered.

First party top ups are also allowed under a deferred payment scheme

Thank you. As you say I'm sure I must be able to use some of Mum's money with my LPA's. Mum has been assessed as not able to make decisions on her own health and wellbeing so I assume I can decide that Mum would choose to pay the extra from her funds to stay where she is.

I'm expecting an update from SS tomorrow so trying to forearm myself with enough info for a potential fight.

 

[GordonCambs]

My Mum is in a care home in Scotland. She went from hospital to the care home in Feb 2020, so just befoe lockdown. Not ideal timing from dealing with the council and social services. I went for the 12 week disregard period which then extended into a deferred payment scheme until we sold the house. (in a pandemic with the property market on hold) The council paid their contribution (disregarding the fact that we had a house to sell) for 12 weeks. We used Mum's savings to pay the balance for 12 weeks. Asfet that we didn't pay anything until we had sold the house and we settled up with the council. Earlier this year the care home sent an additional invoice that they claim they had from the council for 12 weeks of "client contribution". Apparently the council contribution was subject to a means tested reduction. The admin for this was confused by the lockdown situation and I am still trying to sort it out.
Care homes are all expensive. My impression is that the price difference between the (nearly) top end one and less nice ones isn't that much (in the scheme of things)

 

[nitram]

@GordonCambs
As the query relates to Scotland you could contact either

24 hour Freephone Dementia Helpline | Alzheimer Scotland

Emotional support and signposting advice, available 24 hours, everyday of the year.

www.alzscot.org

or

Property disregard | Care Information Scotland

The value of your property may be disregarded when your local council assesses how much you need to pay towards your care home fees. Learn about property disregard and if it applies to you.

careinfoscotland.scot

Some members may also be able to help although most of their knowledge and experience relates to England.

 

[GordonCambs]

I eventually managed to get a reply from the council so I am waiting for a response to the request fo a copy of the funding letter that I don't think I eveg got due to the Covid chaos. Then it is just arguing with the care home accounts. I think the care home didn't invoice the right amount and now they have recouped that.
Thanks for the links though