1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. overgage

    overgage Registered User

    Mar 9, 2015
    1
    What are the consequences of doa? Is it a criminal offence? Who decides if it has been committed?
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,419
    When you say doa, do you mean deprivation of assets?

    If so it really depends on how the person who should have those assets were deprived of them. If fraudulently yes the person who did this could expect to spend some time explaining themselves to the police. But I suspect you are talking about a situation where the person in question actually chose to deprive themselves of these assets. If that was the case, no, it's not criminal but they could be considered to still hold those assets. If they have been passed to a family member I have heard of the LA chasing the family, but ultimately, if you had, say £50K and handed over £30K to someone, the LA might well take the position that you actually still had those assets and expect you to pay accordingly.
     
  3. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,668
    Salford
  4. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,419
    Kevin - I think that link is a very good explanation of deprivation.

    I think it's also important to remember that if a person disposes of assets to avoid paying for care, it's not a victimless thing. Yes the LA will be paying but you know what? The people who ultimately pay are taxpayers (be it national or local).


    Something that overgage asked that I don't think either of us addressed is: who decides? Initially it will be the LA. If there is a dispute then either an ombudsman or the courts.
     
  5. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    Thank you Jennifer for saying that. Totally agree.
     
  6. marionq

    marionq Registered User

    Apr 24, 2013
    5,600
    Female
    Scotland
    I'm awfully glad we're talking assets here and not Dead On Arrival. That was a noir film of the fifties. Good one too.
     
  7. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    9,397
    Female
    South coast
    Im awfully glad you said that marion, because to me DOA means dead on arrival too and I couldnt work out what the OP meant......... :eek:
     
  8. Hex

    Hex Registered User

    May 24, 2014
    15
    Newcastle Upon Tyne
    Thank you Kevin for that link. I think it justifies my dilemma right now. I have joint LPA for my mum along with my SIL who because of locality is named career. I set up all of mums direct debits and organized her assessment to have her care needs addressed. She had a financial assessment and I asked about the amount of savings that would affect her award. I was told they wouldn't look at anything under £23,000. All was good, until recently. She moved to an extra care complex where she is very happy. All this time my SIL has been getting her money from the post office, getting her shopping and every now and again making a deposit into her bank account. I suspect she has been very generous to herself but with no actual proof I was never going to lose any sleep over it. The bills are covered and everyone was happy. Because of her move she will be due a new financial assessment. This is where it gets tricky! I changed all of mums DLA and DWP payments to go straight into her bank account. Both me and my SIL have debit cards and now I can account for each transaction. My brother called me and said mum has too much money in the bank and we should get rid of some of it! I said it would be fraud and because his wife and I had signed a document to say we will look after mums health and financial business that we would be liable if it was discovered. They then got another brother to talk to me who is in agreement with them. Incidentally mum doesn't have too much in savings as they insist the amount is £16,000.
    They way I explained this to them was...If mum did have too much the worst that would happen is she has to pay more to the LA. And so long as she is cared for and happy that isn't such a bad thing. I have upset my brothers and my SIL isn't speaking to me now. What to do? Who to talk to? Thankfully mum is oblivious to this.
    Syl


    Sent from my iPad using Talking Point
     
  9. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    Stick to your guns, you are in the right. If a deprivation has been deemed to have taken place your mum will be treated as still having those assets, so it wouldn't achieve anything.

    If your mum's assets/savings are above £14,250 she will be required to make a contribution to her care costs.

    From CRAG
     
  10. Katrine

    Katrine Registered User

    Jan 20, 2011
    2,852
    England
    Has your mum already got a funeral plan? If not, then this is a legitimate expense and would bring her savings down a bit.
     
  11. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    9,397
    Female
    South coast
    Good point. If Mum only has about £16,000 in savings, then a funeral plan will easily bring it down to under £14,250.
     
  12. Quizbunny

    Quizbunny Registered User

    Nov 20, 2011
    81
    As this government have now made it possible to get hold of your pension and blow it all on world cruises and flashy cars, will this result in deprivation of assets actions being taken in the not too distant future?
     
  13. Hex

    Hex Registered User

    May 24, 2014
    15
    Newcastle Upon Tyne
    Katrine, I have purchased a funeral plan for her. I figured it would give me some breathing space until I can get some proper advice.


    Sent from my iPad using Talking Point
     
  14. Hex

    Hex Registered User

    May 24, 2014
    15
    Newcastle Upon Tyne
    Canary, I am not to bothered about mums assets going over the limit. The way I see it is, so long as she living comfortably and is happy then why the fuss? My brother has a really slanted view about the government and not letting them take anything but really! They gave it in the first place!


    Sent from my iPad using Talking Point
     
  15. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    Guess that depends on the person's state of health at the time they decide to spend it. If there is no reason to believe that the person is likely to need care in the future, I can't see that could be argued as DOA.
     
  16. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,499
    Female
    London
    I am guessing only if the person was aware they might be needing care in the not too distant future.

    I've always wondered what classes as an expensive holiday though. World cruises of course but what about specialised holidays for people with dementia like Revitalise or Dementia Adventure? They are not cheap cheap, though they are actually subsidised to a degree, but nursing care or bespoke packages come at a price. Seeing that in a lot of cases it's the only holiday some people can take, would that be taken into account if the council looks at holiday expenditure?
     
  17. katek

    katek Registered User

    Jan 19, 2015
    191
    Would we not be almost becoming some sort of 'police state' if people start getting accused of DoA for daring to spend their own money on their choice of holiday, if they are unfortunate enough to be ill? I sincerely hope it never comes to that.
     

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