Do you believe in fate?

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by jc141265, May 27, 2006.

  1. jc141265

    jc141265 Registered User

    Sep 16, 2005
    836
    Australia
    For me, one of the hardest things about dealing with Dad's dying of this disease is that it makes me question life.

    Is there a God? If there is how could he/she be so cruel?

    Do things happen in life for a reason? If they do, then I don't like the way life plays, there can't be a good enough reason for this tragedy to be allowed to happen.

    Do good and bad people eventually get what they deserve...if thats so why is this happening to Dad, or me...I don't think either of us were bad enough to deserve this?

    But the problem with the obvious answer to all these questions (the obvious answer when you consider how horrible this situation is), that there isn't a God, that there isn't rhyme or reason to life, that it doesn't matter how 'good' you are, life can still suck....is that they leave one who already feels depressed and hopeless feeling even worse. If you can believe in something, have faith in something, life is far far easier, it makes it easier to take one more step, to push through the pain, keep moving.

    So what I have done in the last few years is basically squashed any serious contemplation of these questions in my head as much as possible...because I fear that if I do, I may not be able to carry on. Instead I pretend that I think God is looking after me and Dad, I pretend that things happen for a reason and one day I'll be glad (??!!??) of all this, and I pretend that if I keep being good, one day life will be good back to me again....and it works, pretending to have faith, is almost as good as having it.

    But I'm not hear today to just ramble on and on about the philosophical but to describe something that has happened to me that involves so many coincidences it makes me wonder if i don't have to pretend after all....I thought some of you might like to hear of this too, as it might help you pretend as well...

    As some of you may know I have been attending University for the past 3 years (I finished December last year). Anyway during Uni Dad went into respite for the first time...and while he was at the respite home, there was another man there who often used to ask me if I knew when his daughter Kerrie might be coming to visit. Eventually one day, I saw this daughter sitting with him and I thought to myself, my goodness her face is familiar, but I couldn't pick where I knew her from. The next time I went to uni though I saw her, she was in my classes. I thought fancy that, 2 females in the same Uni class, both young yet with fathers with dementia...how coincidental. So coincidental I thought, that maybe it was a sign that we were supposed to meet, so I introduced myself.

    Neither of us being the type who like to sit and chat amongst our peers about how sad situations, we never really got talking in depth, and remained just acquaintances that would nod across the room at each other. But after this first meeting I would bump into Kerry at the shops (never used to see anyone else I knew) often, and then at the beginning of this year, just before I started my new job in the company of Kerry's best friend, I ran into her at the doctor's office at the same time as running into my cousin one of the few relatives that visits my dad.

    We chatted quickly about how weird it was that we kept running into each other..but still we couldn't see what we could do about it, except be bemused by it. Over this year though I have since discovered that Kerry is about to get married (I got married in December) she will inherit a step-daughter who is 11, mine is 12, and her husband owns an indoor sport centre, mine owns a gym..and both work 14hrs a day!!

    Makes you wonder if there is some meaning to life, that fate might have some involvement. Anyway...Kerry and I have been madly exchanging emails this week, comparing notes on how both of us cope with our father's condition and being step mothers of somewhat wild children.

    Funny how life works, eh?
     
  2. Amy

    Amy Registered User

    Jan 4, 2006
    3,453
    Hiya Nat,
    I think that is true; I don't think having a faith stops 'bad' things happening, what faith can do is help you handle the situation differently.
    A lot of pain humans suffer is self inflicted; we build near active vocanoes or fault lines, and then ask 'why' when people die. We smoke, we drink, we eat excessively, we work long hours, we drive our cars too fast, we behave recklessly, we divorce because we have 'fallen out of love'. Sometimes we suffer because of our own stupid actions, sometimes as a result of other people, so much of it could be avoided. My belief is that man has (been given?) the ability to think,reason, but too often does not use that for the benefit of mankind.
    I think for some people faith helps them find goodness in a bad situation, it gives them the strength to keep on going on, it makes them part of a loving, caring community.
    For me I view faith as something that gives a better quality of life now. A crutch? Yeh, definitely. But if it helps me limp through life, ride the rollercoaster and still feel 'OK' inside, then I'm not going to knock it. So Your coincidence, why?how it has happened? I don't know, but I am so pleased that you have a friend nearby now who can share your journey with you.
    Love Amy.
     
  3. Kayla

    Kayla Registered User

    May 14, 2006
    621
    Kent
    I have found that whenever I've felt down or in need of help, there always seems to be someone around who can offer comfort and support. Sometimes it can be the most unexpected people. It is hard to see the reason why things happen, but I don't think I could carry on if I didn't believe in God, and the people at Church have been very supportive. I'm an only child so I have appreciated any help I can get from others.
    Reading the Psalms in the Bible it is clear that people have always been in desperate situations and a faith in God has helped them through the difficult times. What is the meaning of Life? I don't really know, but there a lot of things we don't really understand. It is is good to have friends when you are in a tricky situation.
    Best wishes ,
    Kayla
     
  4. Michael E

    Michael E Registered User

    Apr 14, 2005
    618
    Male
    Ronda Spain
    I do believe in synchronicity (spelling?) I mean that you are thinking about someone and they call - or thinking of an event and it then happens... I also believe in the power of positive thinking - cups half full and that sort of thing... It appears to me you make your own luck and your attitude makes good things happen...

    I am afraid that's all I believe in but you never know it may be linked to other things!
    #

    Michael
     
  5. mocha

    mocha Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    176
    Lancs, England
    I have one example of fate that I will always remember, it goes back to when I was 11 yrs. old and in hospital to have my tonsils out. After the operation the nurses put myself and another girl in the wrong beds consiquently our mothers were surprised when they couldn't find us.
    About 8 yrs later I was working in a gent's outfitters when this teenager came for a job but was unsuccessful. Another year or so passed and I went to work at a shoe shop in town and she was already working there and you've guessed it--on chatting we found that we were the 2 girls in hospital because we remembered a lady who used to sit combing a wig.
    Was it meant to be- the thing is we haven't met for 50yrs now
     
  6. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #6 Margarita, May 27, 2006
    Last edited: May 27, 2006
    I would say it’s a wink from God Nat ;) but having being accused of not having balance in my life for saying this in the past .

    I would like to add I believed in a higher power, because I was brought up as a RC as a baby so have a root in side of me ,that some time dies , but I give myself a littlie or lots tender loving care :) like giving a plant water so it spring up again .

    As I got older all I have now is faith in myself, I do not feel I could not carry on because there not a higher power guiding me, I do not question it any more, but I do love the wonder of it all .
     
  7. daizee

    daizee Registered User

    Mar 31, 2006
    51
    Broken Hill, Australia
    Do You Believe In Fate

    This Alzheimers thing really does test those of us who believe we are positive thinkers especially when you have a loved one in front of you with a life that you can't describe as anything but totally cruel and totally negative. Does positive thinking then only aply to ourselves? If so it takes on a whole other meaning. I think the only way to cope in this situation and not go insane is .... 'to do , and not to think' if there is an answer to all this I'm sure it's not up to us mear mortal to figure out.............Cheers Daizee
     
  8. Michael E

    Michael E Registered User

    Apr 14, 2005
    618
    Male
    Ronda Spain
    3 years ago when Monique had first been diagnosed I was in a huge supermarket - one with other shops as well all undercover - there was quite a big man and his wife walking along, hand in hand, slowly. She was clearly in quite an advanced state of Alzheimers.. blank experssion, slow moving, dressed as only a man might dress a woman, hair combed but not 'styled'....
    And he had a look of total devestation - dispair - just beaten.

    It has been an image with me since.

    I will never use the expression 'carer' in relation to myself - I look after her and will continue to do so for as long as I can cope and I want to... Not a moment longer - except I have to live with my consience - myself.

    I cannot change the way Monique is and will be but I am not going to let it beat me - if I can help it. I can see no reason to dispair. Threre are a lot worse illnessnes out there and 'hell' it could be happening to me!!!!

    I believe that when the 'lights go out' thats it... like a general anisthetic - nothing. So till then, there is a lot of living to do - just in case this is the last day!!!

    Bloody hell! thats all a bit serious for a Sunday AM... Going to paint the ceiling I should have painted last week!!

    Michael
     
  9. Brucie

    Brucie Registered User

    Jan 31, 2004
    12,413
    near London
    I'm not sure whether the question is "do we believe in fate" or "do we believe in faith"

    Fate, yes. I agree that we probably make our own. If we are able to make ourselves open to change of circumstance or mindset, then things may happen, if we think they should. I believe this is simply happenstance, but we do need to be open to it to recognise it.

    Faith, yes too. But for me, it is faith in [most] people, or in oneself. Most people I think are - or can be, if they let themselves - good.

    I leave it to those who need to have a deity to provide an appropriate one for themselves.
     
  10. mel

    mel Registered User

    Apr 30, 2006
    1,656
    Sheffield
    I tend to go along with Michael and Bruce on this....By the time my lights go out I think I shall be ready to have a good sleep...not even sure whether I really want there to be anything else after this.....And I really don't want to come back as anyone/anything else !!
    I found with my lovely dad that he spent his life being a good Christian in always helping his family and any others who needed his help ...he had a strong faith and his reward for that was to slowly die of cancer whilst caring for my mother and it took him a week to die in the most undignified (in his eyes) of circumstances...I think what little faith I had at that time evaporated...
    I will continue in his footsteps , trying to do what I think is best for my family and try to offer support to anyone who needs it....but I don't ask for reward....I just look for peace of mind for ME and if I achieve that I will ultimately die happy!!!
     
  11. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    After 2 death in my family & mum geting AD it was like the egoic mind, the creator of the world collapse. out of the ashes of the old world ,a new world come into being for me :)
     
  12. daizee

    daizee Registered User

    Mar 31, 2006
    51
    Broken Hill, Australia
    Do you believe in fate

    I can relate to what Michael said about the couple in the super market. Years ago I did voluntary work at a day center for people with a range of disabilities when I noticed a couple at the entrance with a superviser, the man was clearly upset and protesting to the woman with him that he just wanted his wife, the woman in turn was crying and being comforted by the superviser. I later asked ignorantly why they didn't go and get the mans wife to help him , and was told that woman was his wife ,he had AD. The saddness of the situation stuck in my mind .Little did I know.....................Daizee
     
  13. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    What keeps our faith cheerful is the extreme persistence of gentleness and honour .Gentleness is everywhere in daily life, a sigh that faith rules through ordinary things: through cooking and small talk, storytelling, making love, fishing tending animals and sweet corn and flowers, through sports, music and books, raising kids-all the places where the gravy soaks in and grace shines through.

    Even in a time of elephantine vanity and greed, one never has to look far to see the campfires of gentle people.
    Lacking any other purpose in life, it would be good enough to live for their sake.
    Grrison Keillor ​



    One has to abandon altogether the search for security, and reach out to the risk of living with both arms.
    One has to embrace the world like a lover.
    One has to accept pain as a condition of existence.
    One has to court doubt and darkness as the cost of Knowing.
    One needs a will stubborn in conflict, but apt always to total acceptance of every consequence of living and dying
    Morris L .West ​
     
  14. Áine

    Áine Registered User

    that's quite a quote Margarita. who is Morris L West?
     
  15. Norman

    Norman Registered User

    Oct 9, 2003
    4,348
    Birmingham Hades
    Margarita
    Margarita
    I wonder did Morris L West have a loved one suffering with AD?
    Norman
     
  16. Áine

    Áine Registered User

    yes, me too

    I know what you mean Nat. I've questioned life and the meaning of it a lot over the years, from long before dad was ill. Partly because I've been through a lot one way and another, but I think partly just because I'm the sort of person who questions things and needs to look for meaning. But ALZ is one step beyond what I'd thought to question before. Not particularly that I think that is The Worst Thing that can ever happen to anyone, but because I'd always thought of different illness and adversities in terms of retaining the ability to think about and try and make meaning/sense from them. The idea of not being able to hold on to memories that give comfort; of whatever kindness or reassurance falling into a bottomless pit because there's no way of retaining the memory of it; of everything that one has learning and understood coming to nothing in the blind fog that is dementia .... what on earth can be worth anything in the face of that?
     
  17. Amy

    Amy Registered User

    Jan 4, 2006
    3,453
    Hiya Aine,
    Just got in from the Pub Quiz, so feel like philosophising a bit! Religions advocate not worrying about the past, nor the future, but living in the moment - some authors refer to the 'sacrament of the present moment'. As you know, my mum is in the advanced stage of dementia, she only 'knows' the present moment, its up to all those who care for her to make the present as good as it can be. And if all she knows is love and kindness, then her experience must be good.
    Love Amy
     
  18. Áine

    Áine Registered User

    hmmm .... yes ......... that's a really interesting point Amy. Not thought about it like that. A thought I'll take to bed with me now. [Totally shattered from spending the last 4 days helping my cousin to move house]
     
  19. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    Its true Amy what a lovely way to seeing it ,it would be like a person every wakening present moment of the now is felled with love from the carer giver
     
  20. Amy

    Amy Registered User

    Jan 4, 2006
    3,453
    The problem is Margarita, we can't make sure that she is surrounded by love - so what is happening all those moments when she justs sits in a chair, sometimes sleeping, sometimes looking around, sometimes just lost?:confused: Those are the times I feel bad about; those are the times that I wish she was still at home.
    Sorry, not going to follow that path of thought.
    Love Amy
     

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