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Do we need Health @ Welfare as well as financial LPA

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by suemar, Jun 12, 2015.

  1. suemar

    suemar Registered User

    May 28, 2015
    Mum just diagnosed with alzheimers and Dad getting frail. Agreed to LPA so my sister and I got all the forms. Dad thought it would be free because we were doing it ourselves! Decided to ask at the local club they have joined for elderly people. Been told the clubs solicitors could do this for them he said it okay for us to do this but they said my parents don't need the health and welfare. We think they do any advice please
  2. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    Do it. It'll give you peace of mind. If you do it yourself (and it's really not difficult to do), the only costs will be the registration which at present are £110. This reduces to £55 if the donor earns less than £12,000 a year or to nothing if they are on certain benefits.

    I've never understood why people try to discourage others getting the health and welfare LPA. Unless you pay someone hundreds of pounds to do it for you, the costs aren't prohibitive. You might never need it but if you do and haven't got it, you're stuck. Deputyship is only granted for financial affairs.

    What price security and peace of mind? £110.
  3. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    Yes - I'd get it. When mum was in hospital, they said she understood what was happening when they arranged to discharge her without my knowledge. I turned up as this was happening and when I said I hold H & W LPA and don't believe she has capacity to understand they jumped pretty quick. It will help as they have to let you have info - in later stages I suspect it makes less difference as they will consult Next of kin, but I wouldn't have got what I got without it this time round.

    We did it ourselves, but had to pay GP to sign his bit to say she has capacity and £110 as Beate says for registration.
  4. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    #4 Pete R, Jun 13, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
    The only reason I can think the solicitor has suggested this can only be down to the fact that they have never had to deal with Hospital Admin or Social Workers who are determined to go against the wishes of the family.

    Go with your instincts, get in done whilst you can and I hope you never have to use it.:)
  5. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    I'm in total agreement with the others here: if you can get it, get it. Strictly speaking it shouldn't be necessary as the MCA covers this and a fair number of people are still operating using the old EPA system (which didn't give the option) but there is no doubt in my mind that operating without a H & W LPA will get increasingly difficult as time goes on because the bureaucracy will expect to see one. I'm not saying it won't be possible with effort and determination to deal with the lack of one, but when your dealing with dementia, you need that effort and determination for other things that can't be solved with foresight and £110.
  6. tryingmybest

    tryingmybest Registered User

    May 22, 2015
    Agree with everyone else. Definitely do both. In my various experiences if you don't, others could try and make decisions that may not be in yours or your parents best interests. Good luck and sending you all love and hugs. Xxxx
  7. Fastwalker

    Fastwalker Registered User

    Apr 27, 2010
    Tyne and Wear
    Please do both. My mums GP wouldn't speak to me until they had seen the POA for Health and Welfare. Good luck. :)
  8. LYN T

    LYN T Registered User

    Aug 30, 2012
    Brixham Devon
    Exactly. I had Finance LPA but not for Welfare. I never had any trouble by not having H&W; however, that didn;t stop me worrying about it. I think I was just lucky. I am in good health but have completed both my Finance and H&W LPA's so my Daughter can act on my behalf.
  9. Poppyfields

    Poppyfields Registered User

    Sep 12, 2013
    #9 Poppyfields, Jun 13, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
    Agree wholeheartedly with this post.

    My mum and I had discussed these matters over the years and her wishes were clear.
    I just never got around to actually filling in the forms with her - it seemed (at the time) to be tempting fate and I felt it was all rather cold blooded.

    Now I am having to object to the financial advocate, who has proved herself to be unprofessional and also a liar - trust me, I have proof after resuming contact with my youngest daughter.
    I have told the COP that I am willing to accept an alternative advocate (anything rather than the current one) but that I am willing and able and my mum would want me to look after this for her - her current financial advocate has even admitted to my daughter that my mum told her that she didn't need any kind of an advocate as her family would look after her.

    Same goes for welfare - do it now before it's too late.

    My mum's recently been declared to have full mental capacity - even though my mum still regularly asks me where my dad is and why hasn't he picked her up yet (he died over 20 years ago)

    Makes me wonder how all the other professionals got it wrong 18 months ago when they declared her lacking in capacity and put a DOLS in place.

    Social worker is ignoring my questions (like how my mother has apparently recently told everyone but her family that she doesn't want us seeing any documentation from the care home relating to her care) and also my requests for meetings to be held transparently and openly (I've been deliberately excluded and so has my daughter)

    I've asked if what they are doing is even legal - as at the best interests meeting in late 2013 it was decided that no IMCA was necessary as we her family were representing my mum.
    Yet the social worker is trampling all over this and insisting that an IMCA is suddenly needed.

    Yet another traumatic meeting/assessment for my mother who is ill and frail.

    The social worker seems intent on excluding us - there's never been any suggestion of any kind of "abuse" from us at all.

    Yet she's happy for the care home to keep my mum there - despite them having given notice twice and despite the fact that they've made it clear they are unwilling to communicate transparently, answer perfectly reasonable questions and actually tell us when my mum has had an accident at the care home
    Funny but she never had any "accidents" in the months leading up to her going into the care home.

    And all because I didn't feel "ready" to arrange the LPAs

    So please do it quickly - you will then have peace of mind that third parties can't just waltz in and cause mayhem and worry - and harm to your loved ones.
  10. Davidth

    Davidth Registered User

    Jun 14, 2015
    It's a very good idea to get both types of LPA set up. But of course the donor (ie the person giving power of attorney to someone else) needs to have the mental capacity to understand what they are doing. You can go find all the forms and guidance at gov.uk (just search "LPA" in the search box), or of course you can do it through a solicitor.

  11. suemar

    suemar Registered User

    May 28, 2015
    Thank you all for your replies. I will try and have another chat with my dad, I know he wouldn't want any of the awful situations other families have experienced. I think at this stage we are abit naïve but need to prepare ourselves
  12. count2ten

    count2ten Registered User

    Dec 13, 2013
    #12 count2ten, Jun 16, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015
    Agree with everything everyone has said on here - I did both for my mum, didn't cost anything because she is on pension credit and council tax relief. I got a friend who had known her for years to witness and sign the one for finance, and her social worker did the mental capacity test and signed the health and welfare one at the same time - I needed this one so that I could manage her personal budget and arrange carers for her. So glad I did it, there have been so many times that I needed to sort out her medication, talk to the doctors, make decisions about her care and umpteen other things - it doesn't make things completely perfect, but as soon as you produce the LPA things change, people listen and you can get the answers you need - sometimes. Also, I enjoyed the small victories when faced with patronising receptionists, DN's and other "interested" parties and I could wave this document under their noses! My mum had been diagnosed with dementia but she still had capacity to make decisions about these things at the time, and was happy for me to take the worry out of having to talk to people about her care.

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