Do we have to sell my fathers home in Spain to fund UK care

Discussion in 'Welcome and how to use Dementia Talking Point' started by Walter uk, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. Walter uk

    Walter uk New member

    Jul 27, 2019
    3
    Hi all

    Found this site while looking for answers, found some great advice, but none that really answers my question.

    My parents have been long term Ex Pats in Spain for over 30 years.

    Had residencias and all the paperwork but retained UK citizenship and passports.

    Mum died in May 2018 and I brought dad back to UK as he had early dementia for which mum had been his carer.

    I had the sense to get a UK POA immediately on our return for both property and finance. I had all the tests done over the next few months and he was diagnosed with vascular dementia.

    We kept him with us at home for over a year, until last month. He had deteriorated very quickly over the last few months and we have sadly had to put him in a care home as he was becoming a danger to himself and needed 24/7 monitoring.

    To the point:

    From the will, I inherited from my mother, not easy in itself, Spanish regulations are thorough to say the least.

    We are self-funding at present from his UK money and I am waiting for a Court of Protection order to deal with my father’s Spanish assets.

    I feel his money will not cover his care as other than dementia he is very active and healthy. I have contacted Social Services but they are pretty vague as they have not come across a similar situation before.

    With the house now 50/50 dad and I, and it being in Spain, they told me from the SS view lending aginst the property is intangible as it is in Spain, because of the Spanish legal system and the state of the Spanish property market. But went on to say from their perspective it is a tangible asset we have.

    When I asked what I could do if I could not find a buyer I was told either fund from the family or send my father back to Spain and let the Spanish services deal with him!

    I his 90’s, unable to speak Spanish (he never bothered to learn, mum did it all) and I am to send him back?

    After that statement I ended the meeting and left. I was disgusted.

    Any help appreciated.
     
  2. marionq

    marionq Registered User

    Apr 24, 2013
    5,789
    Female
    Scotland
    We had a home in Spain for 20 years and in 2010 bit the bullet and sold for a lower price than we wanted. I am very glad we did as John was diagnosed with AD in 2012/13.

    I would instruct your estate agent in Spain to find a price at which it would sell. There is always one. Pay for his care here with his share and grin and bear it. That’s all you can do.
     
  3. 2jays

    2jays Registered User

    Jun 4, 2010
    11,597
    West Midlands
    I have no idea but was wondering if the argument that 50% of a house could be impossible to sell so that “asset” cannot be taken into account.

    I have a whisper in my thoughts......
    that scenario can be put forward with a uk property

    but times have changed since I was having to deal with financing a care home
     
  4. marionq

    marionq Registered User

    Apr 24, 2013
    5,789
    Female
    Scotland
    That is certainly an argument you could use when making a case for LA funding but this is an empty house in another country and a pressing need for a solution here. If it can be sold it will allow you to
    Move forward for a while at least.
     
  5. Walter uk

    Walter uk New member

    Jul 27, 2019
    3
    Wow, that was quick! Thanks.
    Not as easy as was for you unfortunately.

    To expand a little further:
    I cannot sell the property. I have a UK notary, a Spanish solicitor and a Spanish notario working on it ( Not cheap either!)
    I inherited under the Spanish Herencia laws which means although 50/50 dad retains the right on sale/rental etc.Dad having dementia means he is ruled out of decisions.

    I am HOPING when the Court of Protection order arrives designed to cover control of my father's Spanish assets, the situation will change. That application has been ongoing since October last year, even via a UK solicitor and a statement of fact that the order was urgent. So much for urgency!!!!!!

    I have been advised the swiftest solution is to raise the money and buy my father's half for 50% of the catestral value but the Spanish notario will not comment on the proposal until they have seen the COP order - in full - translated and Apostilled.
     
  6. witts1973

    witts1973 Registered User

    Jun 20, 2018
    667
    Male
    Leamington Spa
    I wish you all the best, all of those solicitors and fees must be an absolute headache/nightmare I hope something works out for you
     
  7. marionq

    marionq Registered User

    Apr 24, 2013
    5,789
    Female
    Scotland
    Yes it is a headache. I did the Spanish when selling our house. I told the notario John was a little deaf to cover up any odd behaviour. This was before diagnosis but at a stage when I knew something was not right. However it all went fairly smoothly.
     
  8. silversea2020

    silversea2020 Registered User

    May 12, 2019
    81
    We have a similar situation with property in France which my MIL has inherited (she has Alzheimer’s).....not only that, French law dictates each child (3 of them also ‘inherit a share’)...... until a Deputy in U.K. is in place, it’s nigh impossible to sort out - we are STILL waiting after a court hearing in March to find out ‘Who’ the independent Panel Deputy is!! We have a French notary working on things (expensive) & things are now on hold until Deputy in place - Everythjng has been a nightmare since my FIL died
     
  9. Lawson58

    Lawson58 Registered User

    Any chance of renting the property out until you get things sorted?
     
  10. Walter uk

    Walter uk New member

    Jul 27, 2019
    3
    Update for those interested - and anyone who can help from here onward.

    I now have a Court of Protection order! (took months to get) It clearly covers access to my father's bank and allows me to act on his behalf in selling his half of the villa.

    It appears from conversations I have had with a Spanish solicitor, the swiftest way to raise funds for my father is for me to buy his share. The problem being we are not rich!

    I am trying to find out how the market value of a property is obtained in a climate so stagnant as Spain.
    Two local estate agents have told us that unless it is ridiculously cheap (way under half its realistic value) it will not sell.
    The bank told us the same. Their advise was to sit on it until the Spanish property market improves.

    That is all well and good but does not help my predicament where dad is concerned.

    I have made enquiries through the local notario but they are not allowed to give advice!

    Has anybody had experience of something like this before?
     
  11. marionq

    marionq Registered User

    Apr 24, 2013
    5,789
    Female
    Scotland
    The market is not going to improve as the supply of property is way beyond the demand for it. Sell at whatever you can get for it and move on. If you buy a half share you will then have all the costs of the empty property to bear. It's not worth it.
     
  12. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    10,222
    Female
    South coast
    A property is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.
    If you have to price it cheaply in order to sell, then that is its value. 2 estate agents reports will be sufficient for the Court of Protection.
     
  13. Banjomansmate

    Banjomansmate Registered User

    Jan 13, 2019
    1,082
    Female
    Dorset
    If the price is low at the moment then maybe now is the right time for you to try to buy your father out? If prices improve in a while you can then sell it at a profit if you wish to do so. Providing you pay the market price then you are covered.
     

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