Do I have to keep Social Services involved?

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by Nellybell, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. Nellybell

    Nellybell Registered User

    Feb 5, 2016
    28
    My dad who has VD was admitted to hospital after breaking a leg in a fall . Previous to this I had been caring for dad with no involvement from SS. The hospital told me I would need help or he would need to go into a care home when he was discharged due to his VD. To cut a long story SS found him an "Assessment Bed" in a care home local to where we live - I was told this was happening and not really given any say or options. The discharge from hospital happened very suddenly, got a phone call last Thursday at 12.15pm from the hospital to tell me that he was being discharged and an ambulance had been booked that would arrive by 4pm to take him to this care home.

    To cut a long story short I am not at all impressed with the care home - I won't detail what I found in my dads room yesterday but suffice to say that I need/want to get him out of there ASAP!! I have been to look at 5 other homes this weekend - all of which are 200% or more better than the one he is in. I jointly own our house with my father so not sure whether he would be a self-funder or not. Having said that though, as a family we have decided that we will sell the house to release his capital so that we can get him into a better care home (LPA has been applied for). My partner has very generously said that he will fund the care home until such a time as the house is sold so we can actually move very quickly on this.

    My question is this - as SS are involved so to speak, can we just say to them that he is a self funder and we have now found a care home ourselves for him and just get him moved? Also - is it worth still having a care assessment done as the impression I get is that we will just be given some leaflets and left to get on with it?

    Thanks for any advice you can give me.
     
  2. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,731
    There are a number of people who will be able to give you sound advice on the funding situation.

    Did they discharge him to a care home with 'reablement' to give him the help to return home - some authorities use care homes to give 6 weeks with phsio and occupational therapy to help people get ready to return home? The 6 weeks is usually free.
    If the care home is falling short of standards please complain to the manager - it will only help improve things for everyone. Often they 'reable' and then discharge home following an assessment of the home by the OT to put in aids to make life easier and all of this is done as part of the package and then they advise on how many carers a day depending on your circumstances.
    It is difficult without knowing if you want him to return home after a period of rehab or if you feel that the time is right for a care home but it wouldn't be useful to short circuit it if you do want a return home because then you would be on your own to get the help for rehabilitation. If you are going for the long term option of a care home then as a self funder it's entirely up to you what you do.
     
  3. garnuft

    garnuft Registered User

    Sep 7, 2012
    6,585
    Pretty much same scenario with my Father-in-law.

    He (89) lived at home with MIL(92) he has had ongoing incontinence problems and has begun to have falls.

    He fell at some stage during the night on December 22nd.
    MIL found him in the morning, covered from head to toe on faeces.

    We dashed over, GP attended and he was admitted to an intermediate care bed of a care home.
    We were told this bed was his for 6 weeks.
    Once Christmas and New Year were over we were pressured to find alternatives for him.

    MIL didn't want/couldn't have him returning home.
    He is self funding so my OH and I began looking for places.

    We eventually chose the first home we visited.

    SS were not involved.
    The new care home organised FIL's transfer, we were in the new home waiting to greet him.

    They organised a new GP, they are going to organise a CHC assessment when they, or us, feel it might be appropriate.

    We kept SS informed, his social worker was as helpful as she could be, but we didn't need her so there has been no input.
    I still feel able to ask them for guidance if any is needed.

    Hope your Dad is soon safe and as comfy as is possible.
    Best wishes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point
     
  4. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,045
    Staffs
    Yes you can move your Dad tomorrow if you wanted as he will be self funding. However I wouldn't dismiss SS too quickly.

    From your other posts I am a tad puzzled why you want to sell? You have a good case for a Discretional Disregard which depending on your Dad's other saving and pensions would mean your LA having to pay around £200/week (if not more). Then as long as you can afford to top that up you can still move your Dad where you want.

    Even if you do not get a DD you will able to get a Deferred Payment Agreement from the LA with the debt payable on death and if you can find that money from another source you will not be forced to sell.
    :confused:
     
  5. theunknown

    theunknown Registered User

    Apr 17, 2015
    326
    Nelly, I can only speak about my own experience, and it does seem that these things vary between local authorities. I also had to find my mum a care home in a very short space of time. She was sectioned and we were told she couldn't return to her own home. I wanted her to be in a home near me, where property is more expensive. The local authority funding is provided by her original LA, and I pay the top-up fee, with the care home fees being about twice as much as the LA pay. I was lucky in that my husband was able to fund the top-up fees, because I wouldn't have wanted my mum in the two local authority homes that would have been able to take her. Now I'm able to access my mum's bank account (and her house has been sold) my husband's been paid back and, for now, I can fund my mum's care home fees from her bank account.

    One thing I do know is that my mum would be horrified how everything she's worked for, and saved for, is going into the pockets of the government and private companies, rather than benefiting her family. She started off as a student nurse, and then spent the rest of her working life as a teacher. My mum's working life was about her having something for herself, and her children. That's what mattered to her. Especially after my dad left her for someone else, and started a second family. I want to use my mum's savings to benefit her future care, but I know she'd hate the fact that her money was leaching out from the family.
     
  6. Nellybell

    Nellybell Registered User

    Feb 5, 2016
    28
    Hi Fizzie - SS called it an Assessment Bed and said they would fund it for probably 2-3wks but a maximum of 6 weeks whilst they do an assessment - he did not have this done in hospital.

    I will let the manager know - my OH took photos of it - I was just very upset and wanted to get out without dad seeing me like that.

    I think the time has come now for him to move into a care home as we were struggling before he went into hospital as he was wandering at night, waking the whole household up (son studying for A levels/OH works long days and has to leave the house at 5.30am every morning for work)and refusing to go back to bed and going out/trying to go out, having frequent falls and becoming more and more confused. The confusion has only got worse since being in hospital - which is understandable- but he is now having a lot of hallucinations and is very delusional as well. He also doesn't know his own limitations and has forgotten he broke his leg and thinks he doesn't need a walking frame!!!!

    Thanks for your advice fizzie - this is so hard - I just wish I had done more planning when he got the diagnosis rather than thinking we would cope.
     
  7. Nellybell

    Nellybell Registered User

    Feb 5, 2016
    28
    Hi garnuft

    Sorry to hear of your situation - it is so hard isn't it. The care homes I have visited have all said they would do an assessment of him to determine his needs and they have said they can arrange all this fairly quickly if that is what we want.

    I may be being unfair but I have no faith in SS and think they are just going to add an extra level of stress to this whole process - hence my question.

    I hope your FIL is now settled, well cared for and happy in his new home.

    All the best.
     
  8. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,731
    It is always so hard because most of us think we can cope and then a crisis happens, don't blame yourself, you are doing everything you can and it sounds as though you always have done xx

    Do take the advice of Pete before you act - its important to get the finances right for all of you and I expect your Dad would have wanted that too.

    Look at the CQC website for the recent reports on the 5 care homes you have looked at, don't just look at the summary read the whole report - it will give you an idea of any known problems and avoid any that aren't at least 'Good'

    http://www.cqc.org.uk/content/care-homes

    and age uk do a good checklist
    http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/care-home-checklist/location-and-building/

    It is worth getting it as right as you can by researching now

    Good luck, keep posting
     
  9. Nellybell

    Nellybell Registered User

    Feb 5, 2016
    28
    Hi Pete

    I realise I have a potential case for a property disregard but even if I did get it we cannot afford top up fees for much more than 9-12 months. I wouldn't want to have to move dad to another home after 12 months especially back to the home he is in now which I think would be likely as there aren't any other homes in our LA area within a 45min drive - we are out in the sticks a bit and right on the edge of the area.

    So the reason I am going this route is to be able to put dad in a good quality care home that I know when the house is sold and his capital is released will last him a good number of years together with his state and company pension (which he would lose if he was LA funded, well, most of it anyway).

    I also don't think I have the heart to take on the LA with regards a fight as to whether the property should be disregarded - I have seen from some of your previous threads that you are currently "fighting" them and I do admire you for it - I hope you win in the end.

    I hope my ramblings make sense - just say if they don't lol

    Thanks

    Nell
     
  10. Nellybell

    Nellybell Registered User

    Feb 5, 2016
    28
    I hear exactly what you are saying - if it wasn't for my OH offering to fund the care home fees shortfall after my dads pensions then I would be almost suicidal thinking dad had to stay in that home until the house was sold. Dad would be gutted if he realised that I was selling the house to fund his care but he has worked hard all his life and he deserves the best care that can be afforded. Me and the OH will manage - even if we have to rent short term until I can get back into full time work - and then can look at buying another property for ourselves. My main concern at the moment is to get dad sorted.
     
  11. Nellybell

    Nellybell Registered User

    Feb 5, 2016
    28
    I have been looking at the CQC reports - all of the ones I have visited have got "Good" in all areas, I am currently reading through the reports in full and as yet haven't found anything in them that concerns me - still got 2 more to go through yet though. Brain is becoming a bit overloaded with information from them now so may leave them until tomorrow when I have a bit more of a fresh mind :)

    Thanks for the Age UK link - haven't come accreoss that one yet so will take a look at it.

    Nell xx
     
  12. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,731
    Well done you, you are doing so much, good idea to leave it, if they have good in all areas then don't worry. They won't get that unless they are fairly solid. Then it's just a question of which suits your Dad best. When we were looking for respite we looked at loads, really upmarket ones and then the more 'ordinary ones' and my mum liked one of the ones that I would have just walked out of - because she told me it looked cosy and friendly - so the premier inn type doesn't always suit the people that we care for - such a difficult time for you. Thinking of you xx
     
  13. Nellybell

    Nellybell Registered User

    Feb 5, 2016
    28
    It is very easy to look at them thinking whether "I" like them. One of them was absolutely stunning - loads of facilities, like a 5 star hotel - even had a therapist room where the residents can have massages etc (included in the weekly charge - but then again the cost was the highest by quite a bit) What I have to do now is try to put myself in dads shoes, as what I like it not necessarily what he would like or rate high on his "wants" list. I am taking my brother with me to visit 3 of them tomorrow so we can bounce our opinions off each other.

    Nell xx
     
  14. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,731
    good idea, we have one round here which is 5* in looks and should be condemned it is so awful in care!!!! Good that you have someone going with you that is always helpful. Good luck xx
     
  15. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,045
    Staffs
    I can understand why you do not want to take on a battle with the LA it can be a tad trying.:rolleyes:

    Just a couple of thoughts though...........

    IF the LA are involved and you find a CH outside of their area they will still fund their bit. You are not constrained to just the one areas boundaries.

    If your Dads savings are below £23250 then the LA have to offer you a 12 week disregard on the property. This may hopefully be enough time to sell. There will still be a top up but at least not as big. You can still place your Dad where you want.

    Think hard about a DPA. I do hope your Dad lives for many more years but if he does not you may regret selling the house too soon. A DPA is not binding forever, you can let it run for as long as you like and sell at any time.

    I do wish you luck in your search.

    :)
     
  16. cragmaid

    cragmaid Registered User

    Oct 18, 2010
    7,942
    North East England
    Hi, just to say that if Dad went into a home on a Deferred Payment, he doesn't " lose" his pensions as such, they just come off the cost of his care, thus lessening the amount of refund to be made to the LA afterwards. He would still keep a proportion to cover property insurance and his "pocket money" of approx £25 per week. He would also keep his Attendance Allowance on a deferred payment scheme (well my Mum did, but the rules might be different now:rolleyes:)
     
  17. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,045
    Staffs
    Not sure what the rules were under CRAG but do appear fairly much the same.

    As a self funder he would still be able to claim AA, after the 12 week disregard has finished.

    The PEA can be increased to up to £144/week for insurance/maintenance but anything over the £24.90 is added to the DPA and has to be repaid.
     
  18. Nellybell

    Nellybell Registered User

    Feb 5, 2016
    28
    #18 Nellybell, Feb 15, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
    Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. Today I have received forms from SS to fill in for the financial assessment. I may be wrong but I thought that the care assessment should be done first. I am not aware that SS have done this, if they have I wasn't involved in informed. Or is it normal for the financial side of things to start before the care assessment has been completed? Also, there was a note in with the forms to say his funding for his current bed will cease on 25/2/16 - 10 days away.

    From what I have read on various websites they do not seem to be following the correct process as they should - or am I wrong?

    I have to say what little faith I had in SS gas virtually gone at present!

    Nell xx
     
  19. JLSW

    JLSW Registered User

    Jul 23, 2015
    14
    What does your Dad want?

    Erm, sorry, I may have missed whether your Dad has the mental capacity to consent to go into a care home or whether he actually wants to go home?
    Doesn't matter whether he is self funding or not; if he has capacity and does not want to go, you can't just 'put him in a home'.
    You mention LPA which suggests he would have capacity to donate this to you; does he have capacity in other areas? Might be worth considering given that a DoLS will be required should he move into a care home.

    Sometimes Local Authorities carry out a financial assessment before a needs assessment; just an issue of timing rather than not following 'procedure'.

    It's disappointing you weren't involved in the hospital discharge, but not surprising I'm afraid.

    Think hard before selling the house and your dad's previous wishes.

    Good luck with finding somewhere suitable
     
  20. Anna Rose

    Anna Rose Registered User

    Aug 27, 2015
    4
    That depends....

    In my case my mother is self funding. She was assessed as being "without capacity" and requiring a residential EMI placement.

    It's my experience that Social Services state the category of care required, then the choice of care home is up to the family if your relative is self funding.


    Hope you find a good place for your Dad. Moving a dementia patient can be tricky. It took Mum ages to settle. Good luck.
     

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