Dnr

[Kingfisher1]

My elderly (92 years old) BIL was taken into hospital last night suffering from yet another UTI which had left him very poorly and dehydrated. I got a phone call from the ward the morning to ask if I was coming in to visit today as the doctor wanted to speak to me. When I went in the doctor took me into a side room and basically said that if his heart stopped they would not resuscitate him, nor would he be taken into intensive care should his condition deteriorate. He would be given supportive therapy if he stopped breathing, but that would only be in the form of oxygen via a face mark, they would not intubate him. She said it was a clinical decision based on his age and his condition, but she gave me the impression that it wasn't something I could argue with.

Is this normal? I haven't told him of course. He keeps saying what a wonderful hospital it is and how well they are looking after him.

 

[Bod]

It's a conversation I've had with Doctors, when father was last in Hospital.
I believe it's a common situation.
Should the doctors intervene, and the person recovers, then they are still suffering from what they had before, only now have any problems caused by the intervention to deal with.
First Aid techniques, can be quite brutal, cracked/broken ribs are an accepted side effect of cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR)

Bod

 

[RedLou]

It probably is a wonderful hospital, Kingfisher. At least they are considering his quality of life and talking to his next of kin about it. --Believe me, to see someone of advanced age and advanced dementia plucking at the canula pumping them full of antibiotics, being kept alive when there is no joy, nor even a smile left, is a form of hospital-created purgatory.

 

[Beate]

I do agree it's a common conversation, but I don't agree that it was handled particularly well. This should be a dialogue with you being able to process what's being said and giving your opinion, not the doctor just simply telling you what they are or aren't going to do. That's thoughtless and cruel in my opinion.

 

[Kingfisher1]

Thank you for your replies. I can understand why, it's just the way it was handled really although she was a nice lady and it was obviously a difficult subject for her to broach.

Am I right in keeping this from Harry? I wouldn't like him to be upset or think that nothing will be done to help him if he is taken very poorly. I don't want to tell him.

 

[canary]

If it were me, I wouldnt tell him, but thats my opinion.
BTW, its not that they wont do anything - they will treat him, just not attempt to revive him if his heart stops, or intubate him, but they will do other things.
Both of these procedures can be very distressing.

 

[stanleypj]

I think the distinction canary explains is a really important one. DNR applies to the one specific situation that has been discussed and not to any other situation and the things they will not do if his heart stops have been clearly stated.

I wonder if you have any idea of what his views on this would have been before he got to this stage? This is something that the nurse might have raised with you.