My mother went into hospital having hit the back of her head and it caused profuse bleeding. That night (they kept her in for observation) she had a 30 second seizure. Apart from that and a minor infection they suspected in one leg (she has cellulitis) she was OK - she hadn't lost conciousness with the fall and was waking and chatting until they tried to put her in the ambualnce where upon she screamed to be let out. I took days to get her home - I was also amazed at the total lack of dementia knowledge at a hospital which sells itself as dementia friendly. The worst thing was the day she got home I opened the bag with her medications etc to find a DNR notice no one had mentioned this to me - I find this absolutley shocking and frightening
DNR - do not resucitate
- Thread starter jfmb
- Start date
Hello JFMB
Your hospital sound horrible, just like our local hospital was with my mother 18 months ago, their lack of understanding of dementia was awful too. My mother who was a sensitive soul was considered awkward, stubborn and uncooperative!
The hospital did discuss the DNR policy with me, which was right for my mother at that point but it was not helpful to have that discussion because there was no trust in them at all. I felt they might treat her even more negligently.
Hope your mum is settling back home okay.
Your hospital sound horrible, just like our local hospital was with my mother 18 months ago, their lack of understanding of dementia was awful too. My mother who was a sensitive soul was considered awkward, stubborn and uncooperative!
The hospital did discuss the DNR policy with me, which was right for my mother at that point but it was not helpful to have that discussion because there was no trust in them at all. I felt they might treat her even more negligently.
Hope your mum is settling back home okay.
I can't understand how the hospital could have done that. Unless it because you were not actually there when your mum was rushed in and they had to make that decision in her best interests?
We, well mum, were in two hospitals recently and in both cases a DNR was discussed with me straight away because mum had serious pneumonia.
They explained to me that if Mum's heart suddenly stopped, they would not want to attempt resuscitation as it often resulted in broken ribs etc in frail old people. It did not stop them giving blood transfusions, IV fluids and ABs etc to mum.
We, well mum, were in two hospitals recently and in both cases a DNR was discussed with me straight away because mum had serious pneumonia.
They explained to me that if Mum's heart suddenly stopped, they would not want to attempt resuscitation as it often resulted in broken ribs etc in frail old people. It did not stop them giving blood transfusions, IV fluids and ABs etc to mum.
That seems to be not uncommon. For example:
Care homes warned to discuss 'do not resuscitate' forms with families
NHS says homes must follow law on decisions to attempt resuscitation, after issuing apology to woman who stumbled on 'DNR' order in father's notes
The Guardian, Sunday 6 May 2012 20.46 BST
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/may/06/care-homes-do-not-resuscitate
Monday 5 December 2011
NHS hospitals warned over 'do not resuscitate' orders
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/dec/05/nhs-hospitals-warned-resuscitate-orders
Medical arrogance. They're sure they know best. Avoids a difficult conversation and saves time. What's to stop them? If anyone objects, what can they do about it? What consequences are there for the hospital or the doctor?
The GMC says:
End of life care: Guidance
http://www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/ethical_guidance/end_of_life_guidance.asp
[This guidance] seeks to ensure that people who are close to the patient (partners, family, carers and others) are involved and supported
and:
End of life care: Discussion about whether to attempt CPR
http://www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/ethical_guidance/end_of_life_CPR_attempt_discussion.asp
This may involve discussions with the patient or with those close to them, or both
It may? That could hardly be any weaker.
HEALTH AND HUMAN RIGHTS - A GUIDE TO THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACT 1998
Jeremy Croft
http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/sites/files/nuffield/publication/health-and-human-rights-jan05.pdf
The BMA advises:
- the relatives of an incompetent adult should be consulted about treatment and their views taken into account
See also:
Cardiopulmonary resuscitation: helping you make decisions (2007)
http://bma.org.uk/-/media/files/pdf... work/ethics/decisionsrelatingresusreport.pdf
- In England and Wales the Mental Capacity Act requires that best-interests decisions must include seeking the views of anyone named by the patient as someone to be consulted, anyone engaged in caring for the person or interested in the patient’s welfare
- In Scotland the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Act requires doctors to take account,so far as is reasonable and practicable, of the views of patients’ nearest relatives and their primary carers
from
Key guidance on ethics - an A to Z
http://bma.org.uk/practical-support-at-work/ethics/ethics-a-to-z
CARD 6 - Adults who lack capacity
http://bma.org.uk/-/media/files/pdfs/practical advice at work/ethics/consenttoolkit_card6.pdf
The [Mental Capacity] Act also requires doctors to take into account, so far as is reasonable and practicable, the views of the patient’s primary carer
CARD 7 - Adults who lack capacity
http://bma.org.uk/-/media/files/pdf... work/ethics/confidentialitytoolkit_card7.pdf
Card seven: consent to treatment – adults who lack capacity
http://bma.org.uk/practical-support...ool-kit/consent-to-treatment-lacking-capacity
DNAR case prompts BMA ethical guidance reminder
14 September 2012
http://bma.org.uk/news-views-analys...ar-case-prompts-bma-ethical-guidance-reminder
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i'm afraid i would hit the roof. family must give consent , mainly next of kin. or unless ur mum had it on her med records + 4got to tell anyone.
i'm afraid i would hit the roof. family must give consent , mainly next of kin. or unless ur mum had it on her med records + 4got to tell anyone.has a mental capacity check been done, to say your mum CAN NOT make any decisions. unless this has been done you risk deprivation of liberty on your mum.stupid i know.but protecting your mum as well.
I had a similar experience, we discovered that my mother had been discharged from hospital to a nursing home with a DNR order which we new nothing about. When I complained to the hospital they apologised and said they had intended to discuss this with the family but unfortunately this was overlooked. It appears to me that doctors think that they are exempt from the MCA and will take this paternalistic attitude and think it is okay so long as they say they are acting in the patients best interest.
When my mum was in hospital April/May 2013, apparently this was discussed with my two brothers but not with me 
. They agreed to the DNR but I wouldn't have. They both left home over 20 years ago, I still live with mum, so it would affect me much more. I felt I had no say in anything. This Jan, mum had a cardiac arrest in hospital and they resuscitated her, they didn't know about the DNR, thankfully. now she is in the CH we have not agreed to DNR, luckily I was there when the form was filled in this time
. They agreed to the DNR but I wouldn't have. They both left home over 20 years ago, I still live with mum, so it would affect me much more. I felt I had no say in anything. This Jan, mum had a cardiac arrest in hospital and they resuscitated her, they didn't know about the DNR, thankfully. now she is in the CH we have not agreed to DNR, luckily I was there when the form was filled in this time 
