Discharge from mental health unit to nursing home imminent

Delilah63

Registered User
Jan 4, 2018
47
My Dad was admitted to hospital under mental health act on 20th Dec, and has been in the assessment unit since jan. We have been told now that he is "optimum" and have been asked to choose a nursing home. Its a nightmare as we cant visit anywhere ( we live a long way from him and my mum) and the homes are not willing to tell us if they have corona virus cases...and despite Dad being tested before he leaves hospital, may probably have to be isolated for a week...in a place he doesnt know, with people he doesnt know and none of us allowed in to help him or see him. He has challenging behaviour when he is frustrated or confused and doesnt know what is going on. I feel like I am being asked to deliberately put him in harms way and I feel at a loss how to fight this, as they say he no longer needs the acute bed. It feels like I am having to choose blind and I have no idea what Im sending him to. How can this information be considered confidential?
Hearbroken..again
 

Louise7

Registered User
Mar 25, 2016
2,127
Its a nightmare as we cant visit anywhere ( we live a long way from him and my mum) and the homes are not willing to tell us if they have corona virus cases...and despite Dad being tested before he leaves hospital, may probably have to be isolated for a week...
Sorry to hear of the difficulties that you are having due to the covid-19 situation. It seems to be standard practice now for care homes to place new residents in isolation as a precaution, whether they have already been tested or not. My Mum's care home are placing all new residents in isolation for 14 days as that is the standard incubation period of the virus so it would potentially take that long for symptoms to show. It's done as a precaution and part of their infection control processes, to keep other residents and staff safe. If your brother is placed in a home that meets his needs then the staff will be experienced in dealing with challenging behaviour and will have techniques to manage this.

It feels like I am having to choose blind and I have no idea what Im sending him to. How can this information be considered confidential?
There's a recent news article covering a freedom of information request with regards to finding out which care homes have had covid-19 outbreaks. The request was refused, with the CQC stating “This has nothing to do with protecting the reputation of the providers concerned, but is about protecting the privacy and confidentiality of those who have died and their families” : https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-h...-care-home-deaths-from-covid-19-idUKKBN22P2QO

As already suggested, speak to the social worker with regards to suggested homes as your brother needs to be placed somewhere that is fully able to meet his needs, and also let them know your concerns about making sure that prospective homes have adequate infection control procedures in place. I hope that you find somewhere suitable for your brother soon and that he settles in well.
 

Trebor64

New member
Jan 28, 2020
6
My Partner was admitted to a Nursing Home from hospital on March 25th. I really feel for you. Ours was a very similar tale of woe. Got nothing else to say. I could write War and Peace. Just sending you kind thoughts.
 

Delilah63

Registered User
Jan 4, 2018
47
My Partner was admitted to a Nursing Home from hospital on March 25th. I really feel for you. Ours was a very similar tale of woe. Got nothing else to say. I could write War and Peace. Just sending you kind thoughts.
Thank you...I stopped looking at my phone for a day because I was finding it hard to cope, and to find your message was really appreciated. These last few weeks must have been so stressful for you, I hope it's working out ok for your partner..and you. I keep thinking if I had the energy and could write down the whole sorry story and scream it from the rooftops to anyone and everyone so that they could understand how hard this all is..uneccessarily hard, uneccessarily complicated, being given different information /no information and all of the time never knowing if you did the right thing. If you do decide to write your war and peace...I'll help😶 thanks for replying
 

Delilah63

Registered User
Jan 4, 2018
47
My Partner was admitted to a Nursing Home from hospital on March 25th. I really feel for you. Ours was a very similar tale of woe. Got nothing else to say. I could write War and Peace. Just sending you kind thoughts.
Thank you...I stopped looking at my phone for a day because I was finding it hard to cope, and to find your message was really appreciated. These last few weeks must have been so stressful for you, I hope it's working out ok for your partner..and you. I keep thinking if I had the energy and could write down the whole sorry story and scream it from the rooftops to anyone and everyone so that they could understand how hard this all is..uneccessarily hard, uneccessarily complicated, being given different information /no information and all of the time never knowing if you did the right thing. If you do decide to write your war and peace...I'll help😶 thanks for replying
Sorry to hear of the difficulties that you are having due to the covid-19 situation. It seems to be standard practice now for care homes to place new residents in isolation as a precaution, whether they have already been tested or not. My Mum's care home are placing all new residents in isolation for 14 days as that is the standard incubation period of the virus so it would potentially take that long for symptoms to show. It's done as a precaution and part of their infection control processes, to keep other residents and staff safe. If your brother is placed in a home that meets his needs then the staff will be experienced in dealing with challenging behaviour and will have techniques to manage this.



There's a recent news article covering a freedom of information request with regards to finding out which care homes have had covid-19 outbreaks. The request was refused, with the CQC stating “This has nothing to do with protecting the reputation of the providers concerned, but is about protecting the privacy and confidentiality of those who have died and their families” : https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-h...-care-home-deaths-from-covid-19-idUKKBN22P2QO

As already suggested, speak to the social worker with regards to suggested homes as your brother needs to be placed somewhere that is fully able to meet his needs, and also let them know your concerns about making sure that prospective homes have adequate infection control procedures in place. I hope that you find somewhere suitable for your brother soon and that he settles in well.
Thankyou for your replies and suggestions. I finally managed to speak to a nursing home manager who was very honest and told me what the situation was in her home and how they would manage dad etc. It was awful in that they do have cases of the virus in staff and residents, but so reassuring to speak to someone who was willing to be honest and realistic about the situation. I'm now trying to come to terms with being the person who decided to send dad from a place which has so far been corona free to somewhere where it undoubtedly is..as the care home manager said, they have had it in there long enough to set up procedures and they have ppe sorted and possibly staff who have already had it and are therefore immune.
I will try and see if there is a hospital social worker who can help from here as the social services social worker has been no help at all..in fact its the way she has presented things and her lack of understanding of dementia or anything really that has put me in this state..feeling like I just can't find out anything without hours of trawling through helpsheets and factsheets
Arghhh, time for a cup of tea and a calm down, thankyou though for your support. I'm sure im not alone in that the irony of all of this is that my dad would have been the only person in our family that I could have turned to to talk this through...onward...
 

Louise7

Registered User
Mar 25, 2016
2,127
I finally managed to speak to a nursing home manager who was very honest and told me what the situation was in her home and how they would manage dad etc. It was awful in that they do have cases of the virus in staff and residents, but so reassuring to speak to someone who was willing to be honest and realistic about the situation. I'm now trying to come to terms with being the person who decided to send dad from a place which has so far been corona free to somewhere where it undoubtedly is..as the care home manager said, they have had it in there long enough to set up procedures and they have ppe sorted and possibly staff who have already had it and are therefore immune.
I will try and see if there is a hospital social worker who can help from here as the social services social worker has been no help at all..in fact its the way she has presented things and her lack of understanding of dementia or anything really that has put me in this state..feeling like I just can't find out anything without hours of trawling through helpsheets and factsheets
I'm glad that you've managed to speak to someone who has been honest about the situation in their care home. It may be that there have been some virus cases in the assessment centre but you haven't been told about them - it seems that people are reluctant to let relatives know the full position. My mum is in a nursing home which had an outbreak of the virus (we found out via other resident's families, not the home manager) and things definitely appear to be much better than they were a month ago, plus all staff & residents are now able to be tested whether they have symptoms or not. Hopefully the hospital social worker will be better than the other one. I had quite a lot of contact with various social workers in relation to mum's discharge from hospital and found that some are a lot better than others! Enjoy that cup of tea and keep posting as there is lots of support available here from others who have been in similar situations so you're not alone.
 

Cat27

Volunteer Moderator
Feb 27, 2015
11,343
Merseyside
My Partner was admitted to a Nursing Home from hospital on March 25th. I really feel for you. Ours was a very similar tale of woe. Got nothing else to say. I could write War and Peace. Just sending you kind thoughts.
Welcome to DTP @Trebor64. Please keep posting as you’ll get lots of support here.
 

Trebor64

New member
Jan 28, 2020
6
Thank you...I stopped looking at my phone for a day because I was finding it hard to cope, and to find your message was really appreciated. These last few weeks must have been so stressful for you, I hope it's working out ok for your partner..and you. I keep thinking if I had the energy and could write down the whole sorry story and scream it from the rooftops to anyone and everyone so that they could understand how hard this all is..uneccessarily hard, uneccessarily complicated, being given different information /no information and all of the time never knowing if you did the right thing. If you do decide to write your war and peace...I'll help😶 thanks for replying

Thankyou for your replies and suggestions. I finally managed to speak to a nursing home manager who was very honest and told me what the situation was in her home and how they would manage dad etc. It was awful in that they do have cases of the virus in staff and residents, but so reassuring to speak to someone who was willing to be honest and realistic about the situation. I'm now trying to come to terms with being the person who decided to send dad from a place which has so far been corona free to somewhere where it undoubtedly is..as the care home manager said, they have had it in there long enough to set up procedures and they have ppe sorted and possibly staff who have already had it and are therefore immune.
I will try and see if there is a hospital social worker who can help from here as the social services social worker has been no help at all..in fact its the way she has presented things and her lack of understanding of dementia or anything really that has put me in this state..feeling like I just can't find out anything without hours of trawling through helpsheets and factsheets
Arghhh, time for a cup of tea and a calm down, thankyou though for your support. I'm sure im not alone in that the irony of all of this is that my dad would have been the only person in our family that I could have turned to to talk this through...onward...
Hi Delia63. Hope you’re finally getting the support you need. Myself and the family have been very fortunate to have access to a very supportive hospital social worker, an Admiral Nurse from the same place, and the Older Peoples Mental Health Team.
Despite all of this, here I am at 5.30am, replying on here, as you’ve rightly stated, it’s the guilt and worry that gets you 😥 along with the sleep deprivation....
I think all of us on here feel the guilt, and wander if we could have done more.
For me and you it’s particularly difficult, as we’ve always been there, caring and supporting our loved ones, either at home or in hospital. To suddenly have that stopped, and knowing you’re not going to see them for however long this Covid19 situation continues, is a devastating blow.
If you have close friends and family, please speak to them. I find myself apologising for talking too long on the phone, but they’re all very understanding. It helps me stop bottling everything up, even if it’s for a short while.
As I’ve previously said, I’m not going to go into my own personal situation, but please be assured that, as our situations are so similar, we can support eachother, aided by other members on here.
I know you’ll have a lot to sort out at this point in time, but if at all possible, give yourself some space. I’m lucky to have an allotment and garden.
Take care, I’m anticipating another few phone calls today. Admin, as the family call it 🌞🌻
 

Delilah63

Registered User
Jan 4, 2018
47
Hi Delia63. Hope you’re finally getting the support you need. Myself and the family have been very fortunate to have access to a very supportive hospital social worker, an Admiral Nurse from the same place, and the Older Peoples Mental Health Team.
Despite all of this, here I am at 5.30am, replying on here, as you’ve rightly stated, it’s the guilt and worry that gets you 😥 along with the sleep deprivation....
I think all of us on here feel the guilt, and wander if we could have done more.
For me and you it’s particularly difficult, as we’ve always been there, caring and supporting our loved ones, either at home or in hospital. To suddenly have that stopped, and knowing you’re not going to see them for however long this Covid19 situation continues, is a devastating blow.
If you have close friends and family, please speak to them. I find myself apologising for talking too long on the phone, but they’re all very understanding. It helps me stop bottling everything up, even if it’s for a short while.
As I’ve previously said, I’m not going to go into my own personal situation, but please be assured that, as our situations are so similar, we can support eachother, aided by other members on here.
I know you’ll have a lot to sort out at this point in time, but if at all possible, give yourself some space. I’m lucky to have an allotment and garden.
Take care, I’m anticipating another few phone calls today. Admin, as the family call it 🌞🌻
Hello...and thank you so much for your reply, it means such a lot to know someone understands. I wouldnt have believed things could possibly have become more complicated over the last days, but they have and now Im trying to get mum some help at the same time as we have had an emergency there too....all of that is just to explain why i hadnt acknowledged your kind reply. Sometimes the overwhelming sadness of it all takes my breath away. I'm glad you have people to phone and talk to...I feel like I just can't, but maybe I should. Dads birthday today and mum goes into a care home. My heart feels broken.
 

Lynmax

Registered User
Nov 1, 2016
465
I hope you manage to get things sorted for your mum and dad, it must be so difficult for you.

We had to be very tough and appear uncaring to get mum the support she needed after she was admitted to hospital on 22/3/20 following a fall at home. We ( my sister, brother and myself) told the hospital that she could not return home and that if the hopital wanted to discharge her home then we would withdraw our support and it would be up,to someone else to provide the daily support ( meals, shopping, cleaning up after incontinent accidents, administering medication etc etc) and also arrange payment as she would be self funding.

Due to the lockdown, mums habit of daily visits to the shops and local walks, we raised enough concerns for the hospital to get mum a social worker appointed who then worked with the hospital discharge team to find a care home for her, took them five weeks but she was well cared for in hospital. At that point I stepped in and arranged for mum to go to a care home that had been recommended to me.

I am sure that had we not stood firm and made threats of withdrawing support then mum would have been discharged back home which would have been impossible - even without the fall we knew that it was time to look at care homes.

Are the powers that be expecting you to find a suitable placement? There is a special fund from the Gvt during this pandemic to pay for care home fees to help move people out of hospital, mum has benefited from it, there was a special team in place at the hospital who were responsible for discharges through this fund.

I was lucky in that the newly appointed local authority social worker was very understanding and worked well with the hospital social team to find a suitable placement. But I had to keep repeating that we were not able to care for mum at home any longer.
 

Trebor64

New member
Jan 28, 2020
6
Hello...and thank you so much for your reply, it means such a lot to know someone understands. I wouldnt have believed things could possibly have become more complicated over the last days, but they have and now Im trying to get mum some help at the same time as we have had an emergency there too....all of that is just to explain why i hadnt acknowledged your kind reply. Sometimes the overwhelming sadness of it all takes my breath away. I'm glad you have people to phone and talk to...I feel like I just can't, but maybe I should. Dads birthday today and mum goes into a care home. My heart feels broken.
Wow. Delia63. At this point, don’t think there’s much I can say, that will change how you feel. It’s totally understandable. Is there a close friend or relative you can speak to?
Sometimes in adversity, we find an inner strength we didn’t know we had. I’ve had to deal with my guilt for 2 months, plus the not seeing is painful. But somewhere, I’ve had to try and deal with day to day stuff as well. I have good and bad days. I didn’t think I could, but gradually I’m getting there. It’s not easy.
Your parents would be so proud of what your doing.
Please try and speak to someone, cry your eyes out, they’ll understand.
I don’t know you, but I’m thinking of you.
I’ve just got some herbs for the garden.
I’ve got some Flowers I’ve grown from seed, ready to plant.
If it makes you feel any better, I’ll think of you when I plant them.
Hopefully you like bright vivid colours. Check out Cosmos Sensation on line. Tall, bright colours, attracts butterflies and bees.
Going back to nature really helps me.
Thinking of you. Stay strong
 
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Delilah63

Registered User
Jan 4, 2018
47
Thank you so much. Yesterday was a dark day..as you know, some days just are, but it happened, things moved on, as they do...and I have resolved some things that have been so difficult. Tomorrow is another day.....but thankyou for your lovely support....i love vibrant colours x
 

Delilah63

Registered User
Jan 4, 2018
47
I'm glad that you've managed to speak to someone who has been honest about the situation in their care home. It may be that there have been some virus cases in the assessment centre but you haven't been told about them - it seems that people are reluctant to let relatives know the full position. My mum is in a nursing home which had an outbreak of the virus (we found out via other resident's families, not the home manager) and things definitely appear to be much better than they were a month ago, plus all staff & residents are now able to be tested whether they have symptoms or not. Hopefully the hospital social worker will be better than the other one. I had quite a lot of contact with various social workers in relation to mum's discharge from hospital and found that some are a lot better than others! Enjoy that cup of tea and keep posting as there is lots of support available here from others who have been in similar situations so you're not alone.
Thanks..sometimes its just good to vent isnt it...and it means so much to be heard by people who understand this mad thing.
 

Trebor64

New member
Jan 28, 2020
6
Thank you so much. Yesterday was a dark day..as you know, some days just are, but it happened, things moved on, as they do...and I have resolved some things that have been so difficult. Tomorrow is another day.....but thankyou for your lovely support....i love vibrant colours x
Glad you’ve had you’ve managed to sort a few things out. Stay strong, and you appear to be quite pragmatic , which helps. Glad you love vibrant colours. I’ve a vivid blue ceanothus bush in the garden, covered in bees each morning.
I’d rather watch them, than all the news on Covid 19!! Take care x