Discharge from hospital!

Violet Jane

Registered User
Aug 23, 2021
2,015
0
I am beginning to think that social workers are, at best, wilfully naive or, at worst, quite stupid. They choose to take what a PWD says at face value. There is a policy of applying 'the least restrictive option' even if that means that the PWD is left at risk or lives in grossly unsatisfactory conditions. They are out of touch with the reality of modern families: much smaller and more geographically scattered and with most women working outside the home and / or having other caring responsibilities, plus large numbers of people don't have any children at all.
 

SweetPepper

Registered User
Feb 3, 2022
263
0
Given your mother previously wasn't having 4 visits a day I assume there wouldn't currently be a detailed care plan in place with an existing care company which would just need to be reviewed and updated. So how has the hospital managed to safely organise 4 home care visits for today, particularly given "hostessing" issues and a PWD who lives alone? The care company would need to heavily rely on your input to put the care plan together. Have you been given any info about when the carers are arriving later today and how long their visits will be? If not she'll surely be safer in a care home tonight.
She was having one welfare check per day, self funded, beforehand. The first carer was useless, said she just offered food and a drink, wouldn’t dispense meds, offered no personal care. Drives 200 miles a day in this job. Someone rang me and said mum would definitely have the next two carers and they would dispense meds and offer personal care, but I have settled mum in front of the telly, with tea and biscuits and come home. I have cleared up a lot of wee today, been shopping for food and pads,
 

SweetPepper

Registered User
Feb 3, 2022
263
0
What's your mum's opinion about where she lives? This is crucial! As she's self-funding, you can move her to a care home yourself, if she agrees to it. Maybe you could wrap it up as a few weeks convalescence? Or tell her the boiler needs fixing so it's just till that's done. (You don't need POA for health to do this.)

Getting her there is the first thing, and you've found a couple of places so you could just go ahead - you don't need permission from SS. However, once there, it depends what happens next. If your mum is happy to stay there that's all good. If she decided she wanted to go home and got vocal about it or tried to escape, the home would have to get a DoLS to keep her there. This is s Deprivation of Liberty Safeguarding Order and is a standard requirement in locked care homes. It gives them permission to keep someone there, effectively against their will but for their own safety. If this happened, good old SS would become involved again. They would assess your mum's capacity to decide if she was able to understand her care needs. If she doesn't and the DoLS is granted, all well and good. But... if she insists she wants to go home and SS deem her to have capacity to decide, they will then allow her home with a care package and you'll be back to where you are now. i.e. waiting for something really bad to happen that proves to SS she needs a care home.

If you wanted to try this now, you could wait a few days (till the OT has gone...) then do it. But as I say, much depends on what your mum wants (or says she wants.)
We had that convo tonight, when I said that I wished she would come to visit a couple of care homes with me and she said it would probably be for the best.
 

SweetPepper

Registered User
Feb 3, 2022
263
0
Hi @SweetPepper I hope the meeting made it clearer what support is intended for your mother. Are they expecting you to organise four care visits a day as my understanding is that care companies are so stretched it might not be easy to get help in that quickly.
There is only one private care company which covers where she lives, currently they cannot offer even one welfare check per day. She is entitled to six weeks paid for care at four visits per day, but I don’t think it’s the right answer.
 

SweetPepper

Registered User
Feb 3, 2022
263
0
Sorry to tag on to your thread with my own little update SweetPepper - but you might find it relevent. My mother had yet another fall within the rehab Centre today - fell when getting off the toilet.Mum said she banged her head. The rehab centre managed to get an ambulance there very quickly. I met the ambulance and my mother. She is fine actually. At A&E, where I just got out of, she wasn't really feeling any pain from the recent fall and no worsening confusion. The only reason she is in for scan and monitoring is because she is on the dangerous blood thinner, Edoxoban. It just shows though - you or the carers can't stop the falls happening. You just have to hope that the next isn't fatal. The more falls like this though, the more evidence there is that she needs a place in a care home. Once again, my mother said today - "I'll have to sell that house." Fingers crossed I get one sorted too.
It’s all so tough and horrible. I’m not very close to my mum but she’s softening a bit (I think it’s the Memantine!) and is nicer to be with now than ever before. But our time is taken up with mopping up pee and not getting to the loo in time.
 

SweetPepper

Registered User
Feb 3, 2022
263
0
This is awful to read as I had these difficuties with the hospital following a fall with my mum a couple of years ago. I told them that she was regularly wandering in the garden and was so confused that she couldn't find the way back to the door. There was a whole list of things like her trying to heat cups of tea by placing cups on the hob, wandering out on the front and striking up conversations with complete strangers. They wanted to make a modifications to the house such as a cut off for the cooker and door alarms. Who they think was going to respond to the alarm when it was triggered? She was also becomming very distressed and needed constant company, both hers and my mental health were being completely ignored. I could not believe that the hospital social workers were so willing to place someone into a distressing and dangerous sitution, I don't know how they go to work each day and do this. They seem to have to follow a 'one size fits all' procedure regardless, and certainly don't listen! It's all good and well them making these decisions, they go home at the end of the day while we are stuck with the consequences, 24/7.

I'm sorry for what has turned into a rant, I really hope you sort it out anyway @SweetPepper
.
No apologies needed I completely understand. One of the OT’s suggested alarms in the house which would trigger if she was wandering about, she went a bit quiet when I asked what agency would get the alarm calls for those!

They’ve been asking questions that I don’t know the answer to as well, what does she have for tea? I have absolutely no idea! I buy food, if it doesn’t get eaten I then throw it away. They were not taking in board that I don’t physically care for my mother and I visit once a week.
 

SweetPepper

Registered User
Feb 3, 2022
263
0
I am beginning to think that social workers are, at best, wilfully naive or, at worst, quite stupid. They choose to take what a PWD says at face value. There is a policy of applying 'the least restrictive option' even if that means that the PWD is left at risk or lives in grossly unsatisfactory conditions. They are out of touch with the reality of modern families: much smaller and more geographically scattered and with most women working outside the home and / or having other caring responsibilities, plus large numbers of people don't have any children at all.
I don’t think mum has a SW, we’ve never had any contact with one. I am the only child of an only child - my husband is also an only child, and we both only have our mothers, and we have no children - by choice! I didn’t want children, but now I have an 84 year old one.

Mum did make me laugh today when the OT was trying to cajole her out of bed, and mum said NO!
 

Sarasa

Volunteer Host
Apr 13, 2018
7,195
0
Nottinghamshire
Hi @SweetPepper, I think it is quite likely that your mother won't last long at home before there is another crisis, but I'd seize her willingness to try out a care home and get that organised as soon as possible.
 

SweetPepper

Registered User
Feb 3, 2022
263
0
Hi @SweetPepper, I think it is quite likely that your mother won't last long at home before there is another crisis, but I'd seize her willingness to try out a care home and get that organised as soon as possible.
I will be chasing up a fair few people tomorrow, this can’t continue, both me and mum are exhausted.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,018
0
South coast
No apologies needed I completely understand. One of the OT’s suggested alarms in the house which would trigger if she was wandering about, she went a bit quiet when I asked what agency would get the alarm calls for those!

They’ve been asking questions that I don’t know the answer to as well, what does she have for tea? I have absolutely no idea! I buy food, if it doesn’t get eaten I then throw it away. They were not taking in board that I don’t physically care for my mother and I visit once a week.
Im afraid that if there is family around then there is the assumption that family will be the carers. All the while you are there, keeping your mum safe, you will just be left to get on with it.
 

SweetPepper

Registered User
Feb 3, 2022
263
0
Im afraid that if there is family around then there is the assumption that family will be the carers. All the while you are there, keeping your mum safe, you will just be left to get on with it.
I’m not there though, I visit once a week. Groceries are ordered by me and delivered. Mum refuses a cleaner or anyone to iron. I feel like a right cow because I won’t do it - I’ve always done crisis stuff, and I have done much wee mopping today, but I have a fairly intense job which I would rather do than caring, and I need to earn more than the carers allowance. I have not given anyone any reason to believe I will do the caring.
 

JHA

Registered User
Aug 7, 2021
727
0
My mom has lewy body dementia and after a hospital admission and an assessment bed in a care home SS decided she had capacity and allowed her to be discharged home. A temporary care package was put in place together with the various equipment/adaptations. I was told that they could not discharge her until this was done and everything was literally sorted in days. SS funded care visits three times a day and this was due to carry on for up to six weeks then my mom (or rather me) had to source an alternative. The SS carers lasted just over a month before my mom point blank refused to let them come any more and to be honest it was pointless they would come in ask if she wanted help or needed anything her response was my daughter will sort it and they left. I desperately tried to get her to accept other carers but she refused and at that time POA had not been finalised and I had no way of funding it myself.

Everything was then left to me and we limped along until just before Christmas. I would visit in the morning with her lunch and tea and then phone before she went to bed. I was ready to admit defeat in the New Year but things changed when mom was found on the corner of the street at1am in the morning by the police. I was then told by them, her GP, the Crisis team and Mental Health that she could not be left alone so I ended up sleeping on her sofa at night and taking her home with me during the day. The GP/Crisis/Mental Health said they would come up with a plan but after 8 nights I gave up and sourced a care home and somehow got her there. Not quite sure how I did it but she went willingly I cannot say she is happy there but she is safe, warm and fed so that is all I can really ask for. A DOLS was applied for the day after I admitted her and although I would have preferred a different outcome I know that it is for the best.

For the first few weeks I would get regular calls begging me to go and get her then she seemed to settle. Unfortuantely the calls have started again and tonight I had a call telling me the Doctor says she can go home on Friday and that I need to collect her. My visit tomorrow could be interesting - worst daughter in the world award is heading in my direction.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,018
0
South coast
I’m not there though, I visit once a week. Groceries are ordered by me and delivered. Mum refuses a cleaner or anyone to iron. I feel like a right cow because I won’t do it - I’ve always done crisis stuff, and I have done much wee mopping today, but I have a fairly intense job which I would rather do than caring, and I need to earn more than the carers allowance. I have not given anyone any reason to believe I will do the caring.
Apologies - I had got the impression that you were staying there for a few days to sort things out. Caring is very easy to slide into and you dont have to give SWs, OTs etc any reason to believe that you will be doing the caring - it will just be assumed.
 

SweetPepper

Registered User
Feb 3, 2022
263
0
My mom has lewy body dementia and after a hospital admission and an assessment bed in a care home SS decided she had capacity and allowed her to be discharged home. A temporary care package was put in place together with the various equipment/adaptations. I was told that they could not discharge her until this was done and everything was literally sorted in days. SS funded care visits three times a day and this was due to carry on for up to six weeks then my mom (or rather me) had to source an alternative. The SS carers lasted just over a month before my mom point blank refused to let them come any more and to be honest it was pointless they would come in ask if she wanted help or needed anything her response was my daughter will sort it and they left. I desperately tried to get her to accept other carers but she refused and at that time POA had not been finalised and I had no way of funding it myself.

Everything was then left to me and we limped along until just before Christmas. I would visit in the morning with her lunch and tea and then phone before she went to bed. I was ready to admit defeat in the New Year but things changed when mom was found on the corner of the street at1am in the morning by the police. I was then told by them, her GP, the Crisis team and Mental Health that she could not be left alone so I ended up sleeping on her sofa at night and taking her home with me during the day. The GP/Crisis/Mental Health said they would come up with a plan but after 8 nights I gave up and sourced a care home and somehow got her there. Not quite sure how I did it but she went willingly I cannot say she is happy there but she is safe, warm and fed so that is all I can really ask for. A DOLS was applied for the day after I admitted her and although I would have preferred a different outcome I know that it is for the best.

For the first few weeks I would get regular calls begging me to go and get her then she seemed to settle. Unfortuantely the calls have started again and tonight I had a call telling me the Doctor says she can go home on Friday and that I need to collect her. My visit tomorrow could be interesting - worst daughter in the world award is heading in my direction.
Oh my goodness that is one of those terrible stories where you have done your absolute best for your mum and been abandoned by everyone else. It feels very callous that if I visit my mum tomorrow someone will be noting that oh the daughter attended, maybe we do t need to do so much. Hopefully for you she will have forgotten about the Friday going home thing.
 

SweetPepper

Registered User
Feb 3, 2022
263
0
Apologies - I had got the impression that you were staying there for a few days to sort things out. Caring is very easy to slide into and you dont have to give SWs, OTs etc any reason to believe that you will be doing the caring - it will just be assumed.
Yes I’ve noticed I have to fight my corner pretty hard, and I’m not even asking for anything as she is self funding, imo she should have been out of the hospital after a couple of days and straight to a care home for continued assessment, but no one would listen to me.
 

JHA

Registered User
Aug 7, 2021
727
0
Oh my goodness that is one of those terrible stories where you have done your absolute best for your mum and been abandoned by everyone else. It feels very callous that if I visit my mum tomorrow someone will be noting that oh the daughter attended, maybe we do t need to do so much. Hopefully for you she will have forgotten about the Friday going home thing.

I did feel abandoned and I know that if I had muddled on for much longer they woud have needed two hospital beds. All we want for our parents is the best solution and for me and my mom that is a care home. I am an only child and although my mom has siblings they are not interested in her future and my boys are not old enough to be expected to help.

I can guarantee that she will remember going home on Friday as last week she gave me the name of the home manager to speak to and asked on Sunday if I had spoken to her. I changed the subject saying it was the weekend and she was not in work, tomorrow my excuse will be I have left a message and I will not plan a visit until after the weekend.

I hope you manage to organise your mom going into a care home even if its only for a short period of time as it will give you some breething space to work out the next step.
 

SweetPepper

Registered User
Feb 3, 2022
263
0
I did feel abandoned and I know that if I had muddled on for much longer they woud have needed two hospital beds. All we want for our parents is the best solution and for me and my mom that is a care home. I am an only child and although my mom has siblings they are not interested in her future and my boys are not old enough to be expected to help.

I can guarantee that she will remember going home on Friday as last week she gave me the name of the home manager to speak to and asked on Sunday if I had spoken to her. I changed the subject saying it was the weekend and she was not in work, tomorrow my excuse will be I have left a message and I will not plan a visit until after the weekend.

I hope you manage to organise your mom going into a care home even if its only for a short period of time as it will give you some breething space to work out the next step.
I have pretty much sorted it for her to go in today, night care was a disaster, mum saying the carer was aggressive, carers saying she refused to go to bed. Mum saying no carer came for tea time, carers saying they did attend and she had her meds. What a nightmare. If the hospital had given any credence to what I’d said over the 3+ weeks she was in there she wouldn’t have had to go through this.
 

Sarasa

Volunteer Host
Apr 13, 2018
7,195
0
Nottinghamshire
Hi @SweetPepper, a move into care sounds by far the best solution. If your mum objects maybe say it's just till care is sorted out, or things are done to make her house safer,
In a care home they won't try to make her go to bed if she doesn't want to, just keep an eye on her. The same with things such as personal care, they have the time to try again unlike carers coming into a home.
When you have the energy I'd put in a complaint to the hospital about not actually listening to you are properly assessing your mum's needs.
 

SweetPepper

Registered User
Feb 3, 2022
263
0
Thanks everyone, I have found her a place in a lovely home just 10/15 minutes from me. The home always had an excellent reputation, failed their CQC spectacularly during Covid (short staffed and agency staff issues) and are now improving but are only allowed to take on one new person per week. It’s very attractive, everything just redecorated, new upholstery etc, in the countryside. I have all my fingers crossed that mum likes it, when I to,d her about it she was very relieved, I think having done nothing for herself in hospital and now having four strange carers in each day is really worrying for her (understandably).

I really appreciate everyone who has taken the time to reply on this thread, I’m just hoping we get through to Monday without any desperate dramas…
 

JHA

Registered User
Aug 7, 2021
727
0
So pleased you managed to sort a suitable care home so that your mom will be safe and have carers available if needed.

As expected my mom is apparently leaving her care home on Friday - she is planning to sleep on my sofa or at her brothers. Hmmmmm I dont think so.