1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. susan.wisdom

    susan.wisdom Registered User

    Oct 8, 2005
    20
    as mentioned in a previous thread brought my insulin dependent aunt home yesterday with support of nurses doing twice daily insulin & carer to make sure she eats her meals. Today she has verbally abused the carer calling her a moron and throwing a stool across the room. Hence the carer is now unable to visit anymore. It will only be a matter of time until the nurses refuse to go in for the same reasons. She locked herself in her conservatory with her locked box of insulin trying to get it out. It is locked away, but I fear she may get an axe to it to get at the insulin. Carer tried giving her her tablets but she spat them out.
    She will end up the giving the insulin again, giving too much, ending up unconscious and back in hospital again, this time she will not be allowed home by the doctors, I think they will do some kind of order or section. She will have to go in a home.
    Is this inevitable or is there any thing else we can do.
    I live in hope.
    susan
     
  2. Sheila

    Sheila Registered User

    Oct 23, 2003
    2,259
    West Sussex
    Dear Susan, how very worrying for you this all must be. If your aunt is as unpredictable as you say, then I fear you are right, she will not be able to live alone if she is hospitalised again. You have done your best to try carry out her wishes to live at home. There really is very little you can do now. I am sure youare right , the care team will not be willing to visit if she is violent towards them. It is not your fault that things have not worked out Susan, the cards were stacked against you from the start sadly. Perhaps you should start looking for a suitable home, perhaps even get her into one before she does get a chance to cause harm to herself trying to do her medications. It is so sad, they don't realise there is anything wrong and when we have to intervene for their own sake they despise us for it. But we have to do it ion the end. The illness is the one to blame, not you and not your Aunt. Are you in contact with her medical team, perhaps they could help you find a placement for her before an accident happens and they have to section her. Thinking of you, I do hope things can soon be worked out and your aunt in a place of safety. Youv'e given it your best shot, the uncertainty of it all must be making you feel you are living on a knife edge. Love She. XX
     
  3. purchase

    purchase Registered User

    Aug 31, 2005
    50
    England
    Dear Sheila

    Just read your reply to this post and what you said about them not realising that they are ill and despising us for having to do things really struck a cord.

    Mom thinks she is in a care home because she is grieving for dad and all she asks is when can she go home and she says that she has to pull herself together because nothing will bring dad back. She doesn't know that she has AD and that she is in care for good because we feel that she just wouldn't cope with the news. When I visited her this week she asked me to promise her that she wasn't there for a long time and that we weren't keeping it from her. How it hurt to lie to her. I get round it my saying that she is there until she gets better. It is difficult but mom just couldn't look after herself anymore. I just wish there was an answer for my guilt and sleepless nights but I guess that is nothing compared to what mom has to face.

    Love Jacky
     
  4. susan.wisdom

    susan.wisdom Registered User

    Oct 8, 2005
    20
    Since I last wrote, my aunt has been managing, just, with the district nurses doing her insulin. She very rarely remembers to take any of her tablets, only when we go to visit and remind her. My mum, her sister, has has a call from the social worker to say that social services have managed to find a care package going in twice daily to make sure she eats her meals. Is there any way we can prepare her better, and hope to avoid a repeat of the previous carer, when kitchen stools were thrown across the kitchen and the carer was verbally abused.
    My aunt still doesn't like the nurses doing her insulin, but she doesn't seem quite so cross about it.
    Any advice welcome please.
    Susan
     
  5. Charly

    Charly Registered User

    Jul 12, 2005
    12
    Lancashire
    Hello Susan,

    Can't offer much in the way of advice I'm afraid, but must say that I totally agree with Sheila's advice to you.

    As harsh as it may seem and sound, I do feel that your only way to ensure your Aunt's safety, is for her to be in a care home.

    I wish you all the best.

    Charly :)
     
  6. Sheila

    Sheila Registered User

    Oct 23, 2003
    2,259
    West Sussex
    Dear Susan, well, you could try writing out a list of your Aunts needs, preferences, where things are etc. Then give one to SS, one to the care agency, GP, post one on the front of the fridge (I take it her insulin is in the fridge) and one in the bathroom. Thats what I did. Keep a copy for yourself. Anything goes wrong, balls in their court, not yours! Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I got to learn a lot about self/family preservation when working with outside help whilst my Mum was alive. Thinking of you, love and hugs, She. XX
     
  7. susan.wisdom

    susan.wisdom Registered User

    Oct 8, 2005
    20
    Thanks for all the advice and support. I feel that things are moving downwards fairly rapidly now. My aunt yesterday smashed open the locked tin containing her insulin and gave herself a dose before the nurse came. The nurse then took all the insulin away to discuss the situation with her colleagues next day (today). Today she was really unco-operative and the nurse had to get my mum to go down as support. After having her finger pricked to do her blood sugar test, my aunt proceeded to wipe her finger covered with blood on the nurse's uniform, she then had to go & change her uniform before going to her next patient.
    With this the nurse took all the insulin and is contacting the doctor.
    We are awaiting the next stage. The doctor will either have to give her back her insulin and let her get on with giving herself too much and ending unconscious again of get her sectioned and taken back to hospital. They would have to do this with her kicking and screaming or sedate her.
    All the time we are trying to help her and all she does is say that she will cut us out of her will (she has lots of money), she doesn't realise that she seems to be the only one that is obsessed with money, it hasn't done her any good. If money makes you like that, I would rather stay poor.
    Sorry for going on but it is a lot to write andI feel we are near crisis point. Thanks for reading, Susan
     
  8. Sheila

    Sheila Registered User

    Oct 23, 2003
    2,259
    West Sussex
    Dear Susan, sounds as if it's really already out of your hands. So let the professionals deal with it. That way if she does overdose, then your Mum and you will not be in the firing line! I know it's awful, but she is not responsible for what she says and does now, has she given someone POA? This is going to be needed shortly and it is a nightmare if you have to go through the courts. Maybe her GP can help if this has not been done. Please let us know how things are going when you can, thinking of you, love She. XX
     
  9. susan.wisdom

    susan.wisdom Registered User

    Oct 8, 2005
    20
    #9 susan.wisdom, Nov 1, 2005
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2005
    Hi Sheila, thanks for your reply. My mum and I are doing her insulin until Thursday when the psychogeriatician is doing a domicillary visit. I think he will agree with us and give her the insulin again, knowing she will soon end up in hospital again, and onto a home from there. It would be dreaful if she were to be sectioned, she would have to be taken from the house kicking and screaming.
    When we got to her house at supper time, she said she had already had her insulin-of course she hadn't as there was none in the house and she totally denied any of what happened this morning. I will write again on Thursday when the doctor has been. I do not have power of attourney as she won't do it, I am thinking of Court of Protection but at the moment she live for having a cheque book. I am a signatory on her bank account and am appointee for her pension and attendance allowance, so should be ok for a while.
    Thanks for listening, Susan
     
  10. Sheila

    Sheila Registered User

    Oct 23, 2003
    2,259
    West Sussex
    Dear Susan, do let us know how things go won't you? It sounds really hard work for you and your Mum right now. Only hope the professionals see just how hard things are and help you sort it all out safely for your Aunt. Even when they completely wind you up, you go away and what do you do, you worry of course! Love and hugs, She. XX
     
  11. susan.wisdom

    susan.wisdom Registered User

    Oct 8, 2005
    20
    The psychogeriatrician came and saw my aunt. Her memory had got wore since he last saw her but said she was not sectionable. He agreed with us to give her her insulin back and to just wait until she became unconscious again with a hypo and ends up in hospital. The the doctors will say she cannot return as she is not able to look after herself.
    So my mum gave her back her insulin and told her what doses to take, what happened, she phones up my mum at supper time and said that the nurses hadn't come to do her insulin!!
    Now we are just waiting for the inevitable.
    Susan
     
  12. Sheila

    Sheila Registered User

    Oct 23, 2003
    2,259
    West Sussex
    Oh Susan, how awful for you all, sitting on tenterhooks like this. My thoughts are with you and with your aunt, I feel like theres a time bomb waiting to go off myself so goodness only knows how you are all coping. Please keep us posted, love and a hug, She. XX :eek:
     
  13. susan.wisdom

    susan.wisdom Registered User

    Oct 8, 2005
    20
    Things have been jogging along about the same for the last few weeks with my mother going in regularly to rescue her from her hypos. This last week she seems to have been much worse, and today ended up in hospital, as predicted, after yet another hypo. Looks as if she has left her home for the last time now.Mum is feeling very guilty as she thinks she has condemned her to a home, but there is no alternative now. Once the Bank Holidays are out of the way the Psychiatrists will get involved again & then I think we will have to start looking at homes. I will keep you posted.
    susan
     
  14. Lynne

    Lynne Registered User

    Jun 3, 2005
    3,433
    Suffolk,England
    Susan, whilst I sympathise with you for the awful worry this has been, please try to assure your Mum that she has done everything & more that anyone could reasonably expect for her sister (as you have as well of course), and your Aunt has only been able to stay in her own home for this long because of your care and attention.

    The situation was really getting beyond your control back at the beginning of November, wasn't it, so Aunt has been living on borrowed time since then, if not before.

    You used the phrase "condemned her to a home", but her quality of life may well improve considerably once she settles in a care home, with properly supervised medication. The days of the work-house type home are actually gone, you know!
    I think now this 'stage' is over, you and your Mum can get your own lives back for a while (which will of course INCLUDE continuing to care for your Aunt, minus those aspects which now have to be done my trained medics) and see this as progress, not failure.
    After all (to put it harshly) how would Mum have felt if she had entered Aunt's house one day, to find her dead? And I don't think I am over-stating that possibility, I think it was very real.

    Best wishes
     
  15. inmyname

    inmyname Guest

    #15 inmyname, Jan 1, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2006
    Sounds harsh i know but maybe your aunt knows exactly what she is doing in making herself hypo and she really does not want you or your mother or anyone else to interfere

    Maybe she is somehow making her own decision and its consequences and are we as a society right to stop her ?
     
  16. Jude

    Jude Registered User

    Dear Inmyname,

    I'm afraid I totally disagree with you here. I doubt very much if any AD sufferer really knows consciously or subconsciously exactly what they are doing for any great length of time. They do appear to have occasional periods of rationality, but I would think that these moments would be fairly disconnected.

    AD people lose their ability to make new memories or retain short term memory. If they did, then we would all rejoice because they wouldn't have AD after all.

    Jude
     
  17. daughter

    daughter Registered User

    Mar 16, 2005
    824
    #17 daughter, Jan 2, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2006
    Hi Susan,

    Yes, please do not see this as "condemning" your Aunt to a Home. I know my Mum and I felt similarly guilty when Dad had to go into a Home, over a year ago. Dad is well cared for and settled in very quickly, just as Lynne suggests. My Mum has got into the routine of visits, when she continues to give the care to my Dad that she would have done if he was still at home.

    I cannot see this decision, that has been forced upon you, as in any way "interfering". This is taking on the task of looking out for your Aunt now that she is unable to do so herself. This is not giving up on your Aunt; it is seeing her predicament and responding in an understanding, caring and supportive manner.

    Good luck with your search for a Home, there are good ones out there. It may not be everything we want for our relatives but when there is no alternative it is then best to start looking for the positives.
     
  18. Mjaqmac

    Mjaqmac Registered User

    Mar 13, 2004
    939
    Jude I agree entirely with your comments.
     
  19. Brucie

    Brucie Registered User

    Jan 31, 2004
    12,413
    near London
    We spend a great deal of our time trying to understand what is happening in a person's mind who has dementia, and the truth is that nobody knows, in the same was that no-one knows what causes the dementia in the first place.

    While we can try and work out what we think is going on, and while that may -even if we are wrong - at least bring us closer to our loved ones, we will never be sure just what is going on from their point of view.

    I think we are safest when we keep attempting to make interpretations to try and improve the lot of our loved ones, rather than trying to put our interpretations, correct or not, on anything else, especially when there is nothing we can materially do.

    We may, at the same time wish to write down our own wishes for ourselves should we ever be in a situation we consider intolerable so others can have an inkling of our views, but in my opinion, we are not safe in trying to do so for others who can no longer express their opinions.

    I'm not writing this with no context, by the way. I've been there in those thoughts.

    In a situation that is so very difficult, my own conclusion has been that we can do the most good by making the remaining time our loved ones have, as much times of love and caring as they can be.
     
  20. susan.wisdom

    susan.wisdom Registered User

    Oct 8, 2005
    20
    thanks for all your comments & support. I can tell you that my aunt has no idea she is putting herslf at risk. she does not stick to the insulin doses that the hospital tells her as she says they gave her less in hospital as she wasnt eating as much there as she was at home, therefore when at home she needs to increase the dose. Whenever she is thirsty she take more insulin as she associates this with having high blood sugar, whether she has high or low blood sugar she takes more insulin. My mother used to be a nurse and I am one, and I can assure you she is not doing it deliberately, she has absolutely no insight into her problems. Yesterday she has no idea at all how she got to hospital or who found her, nor does she have any idea she will never go back home. That will be the hardest thing to do. Is it best to come from us or the hospital? Any advice gratefully received.
    Susan
     

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