Deputyship

[Oscar163]

Please help! Does anyone have experience of deputyship? I recently needed to use the power of attorney I have to enable me to buy/sell a house for me and my husband who has dementia but was told the power of attorney had been registered in error and was void. My solicitors have suggested taking out deputyship under the Court of Protection. I feel I will be losing control if I use this - financial statements and transactions have to be approved by the Court apparently. Does anyone have experience of how this works in practice? Thank you.
Oscar 163

 

[DeMartin]

I have recently got deputyship for my mother. The CoP does not dictate what you can spend money on, but that you are prudent in your use of your OH money (not your money). It may put restrictions on, for example I can sell my mothers unoccupied house, but not buy another with her money.
Keeping financial records is always good, pen and paper and keep receipts.
There is a website for COP, official site, gives a lot of info.
It’s worth ringing CoP to discuss the POA with them, they can advise if you could refine.

 

[Oscar163]

I have recently got deputyship for my mother. The CoP does not dictate what you can spend money on, but that you are prudent in your use of your OH money (not your money). It may put restrictions on, for example I can sell my mothers unoccupied house, but not buy another with her money.
Keeping financial records is always good, pen and paper and keep receipts.
There is a website for COP, official site, gives a lot of info.
It’s worth ringing CoP to discuss the POA with them, they can advise if you could refine.

Thank you very much. That's really helpful. Hadn't thought about their website but will do that straight away. And probably ring them on Monday. Thanks again.

 

[jenniferpa]

Hi there. Did your solicitors draw up the original LPA?

 

[nitram]

was told the power of attorney had been registered in error and was void

Registered in error, not returned because of an error is interesting.

Have you queried why it was 'registered in error ' and if anything can be done about it?

When I received my wife's H&W LPA it had three official stamps on each sheet.

• Registered
• Registered in error
• Registered

The first registration was dated a day before the required time lapse from application to registration, the other was a day later.
I was concerned about having to use the document with people unable to understand the sequence.
This problem vanished when I applied for, and received, two free validated office copies (This facility has been withdrawn).
They arrived duly pierced 'validated copy' but they only had the second 'registered' stamp.

 

[Oscar163]

It is the old form Enduring Power of Attorney drawn up 2004 by a solicitor friend making him and me joint attorneys. This seemed fine. I registered it in 2015 as the solicitor had died and had a validated EPA returned with covering letter informing that "only the attorney JB(i.e. me) can act under this EPA and it has been stamped accordingly." So all in order I thought. I now need to move house because my husband cannot do stairs, shower etc and when starting the conveyancing the solicitor said she thought the Power was void because a joint one becomes void on the death of one attorney. She said she would check this with the Office of Public Guardian who wrote back that they had made an error, it should not have been validated and please to return it (I haven't done that yet - all this only happened last Wednesday). So looks like we will lose what is the perfect house for my husband. Our buyer is happy to hang on. I feel if they had told me it couldn't be validated in 2015 my husband still had capacity to make a new one. Solicitor now advises only option Deputyship which seems v cumbersome and at a cost of £4000 plus VAT. I feel my whole world has collapsed. My husband (89 diagnosed in 2003) I'm only 72 - everything has always been done jointly - joint names on property, bank account, investments etc. Have now checked COP website and will ring them on Monday and explain our dilemma. Beginning to think the solicitors are only out for their fees. In the light of your experience there may yet be hope. Thank you.
My solicitor has said that we have a good case to apply to the Office of PG for compensation and payment for us of the fees for Deputyship - as it is all the result of their error.
Thanks again.

 

[DeMartin]

It is the old form Enduring Power of Attorney drawn up 2004 by a solicitor friend making him and me joint attorneys. This seemed fine. I registered it in 2015 as the solicitor had died and had a validated EPA returned with covering letter informing that "only the attorney JB(i.e. me) can act under this EPA and it has been stamped accordingly." So all in order I thought. I now need to move house because my husband cannot do stairs, shower etc and when starting the conveyancing the solicitor said she thought the Power was void because a joint one becomes void on the death of one attorney. She said she would check this with the Office of Public Guardian who wrote back that they had made an error, it should not have been validated and please to return it (I haven't done that yet - all this only happened last Wednesday). So looks like we will lose what is the perfect house for my husband. Our buyer is happy to hang on. I feel if they had told me it couldn't be validated in 2015 my husband still had capacity to make a new one. Solicitor now advises only option Deputyship which seems v cumbersome and at a cost of £4000 plus VAT. I feel my whole world has collapsed. My husband (89 diagnosed in 2003) I'm only 72 - everything has always been done jointly - joint names on property, bank account, investments etc. Have now checked COP website and will ring them on Monday and explain our dilemma. Beginning to think the solicitors are only out for their fees. In the light of your experience there may yet be hope. Thank you.
My solicitor has said that we have a good case to apply to the Office of PG for compensation and payment for us of the fees for Deputyship - as it is all the result of their error.
Thanks again.

It does not cost £4000 for deputyship. I used a solicitor and it was £1000. If you can do it yourself the fees are £ 400-600. I used a solicitor but other posters have DIY.
First thing is to find out if you can refile.

 

[Oscar163]

It does not cost £4000 for deputyship. I used a solicitor and it was £1000. If you can do it yourself the fees are £ 400-600. I used a solicitor but other posters have DIY.
First thing is to find out if you can refile.

Thank you for that. Was suspicious of £4k. Im probably committed now but intend speaking with the Office of PG on Monday first thing. The solicitors are intending to file the forms on Monday as a matter of urgency but I think we need a day or two to take breath and do some investigations personally. Many thanks. Really helpful.

 

[nitram]

It's correct that a joint power lapses when any of the attorneys becomes unable to act -they cannot all act jointly.

The OPG was in error in 2015,

covering letter informing that "only the attorney JB(i.e. me) can act under this EPA and it has been stamped accordingly.

If your husband had capacity in 2015 he could have made a new LPA if the OPG had rejected the application instead of saying

"only the attorney JB(i.e. me) can act under this EPA and it has been stamped accordingly."

You have a strong case for the COP changing the EPA to a single attorney or granting deputyship FOC.
I would go for a change to the EPA
I realise that all of this does not solve your immediate problem of the property purchase.

 

[Beate]

That's the problem with a joint LPA. It requires the agreement of both attorneys for everything.

The .gov website says when one attorney dies
"Your LPA can continue if

• there are other attorneys who can act ‘jointly and severally’ - but not if they are only allowed to act ‘jointly’"

I don't know how deputyship works but I would strongly suggest you leave any solicitor out of the deputy action this time. Consider that if the co-attorney solicitor was still alive, you would have needed his permission for every financial decision you make, probably generating a huge bill.

Also, if you need the deputyship for something specific like a house sale, you must apply for this in the forms, and you can probably make an emergency application just for the house sale.

 

[Rich1]

I have recently got deputyship for my mother. The CoP does not dictate what you can spend money on, but that you are prudent in your use of your OH money (not your money). It may put restrictions on, for example I can sell my mothers unoccupied house, but not buy another with her money.
Keeping financial records is always good, pen and paper and keep receipts.
There is a website for COP, official site, gives a lot of info.
It’s worth ringing CoP to discuss the POA with them, they can advise if you could refine.

 

[Rich1]

Did you find filling in the forms easy.
I’m wondering what to put in the box under section 4. What order are you asking the court to make for financial affairs