Deputyship and DWP

[theunknown]

As deputy for my mum (who's in a care home) I'm in the process of informing those who need to be informed about my mum's change of circumstances. At the moment this simply consists of telling banks, pension departments, solicitor, tax office, etc, that my mum has a change of address and I'm acting for her. I've mentioned to talk to a couple of people today, but the solictor's office has 'currently no-one to answer the phone, and you can't leave a message'. The tax office is 'very busy, and there's a 35 minute waiting time for your call to be answered'. I had to give up on the Co-Op (Bank) because it was an automated service. I was able to key in the account code and the sort code, but when it came to my mum's 'security number', for obvious reasons I don't have that. There was no option to speak to a human .

Of the two contacts I did get to speak to, the DWP were extremely frustrating. All I wanted to do was pass on my mum's change of address, which she's not capable of doing. I was asked dozens of questions, which I would expect. I gave them my details alongside my mum's information, but I was left feeling that I was trying to defraud them somehow. The only change is her address. Her pension will still be paid into the account that it's been paid into for years, under her name. I was asked why I hadn't submitted the 'paperwork' before this. My response was, 'What paperwork?' I don't claim from them so I don't know what their rules are, and I was told 'How do we know you are who you say you are?' Well I don't know, how do you? And what difference does it make? My mum is the one receiving the pension. They've now apparently 'logged' what I've told them, but they won't change the information 'officially' until I write them a letter with my and her details. This I'm fine with. However, they also told me that I need to send an original copy of the Court of Protection order. Now this I've very reluctant to do, as some people on here will understand. I asked if they would return it and was told that I would need to state in my letter that I wanted the order returning. Apparently, they don't return 'copies'. However, if I have to send the original, how does the copy document come into it? If my mum was capable of informing them of her change of address they wouldn't need a copy of my court order would they?

In complete contrast, the lady on the end of the phone at Direct Lane helped me out in a very short space of time, telling me that all I needed to do was send a covering letter with my court order and they would then let me know how I could access my mum's account. They'd return my court order by registered post but, if I was still reluctant about posting it, I could go into my nearest branch (either RSB and I can't remember what the other one was), with my covering letter and the order, and they would copy it and post it off, along with the letter, to where it needed to go. The lady on the phone even gave me a name to write 'for the attention of'.

Sorry for such a long moan, but there'll be plenty of people on here who understand what a difference it makes when you have somebody helping you out in as simple terms as possible, as opposed to those who try and make life very difficult when you're already dealing with a lot of anxiety and grief. Does anybody on here have any idea whether I do need to send my original court order to the DWP? After all, it's not my pension. The woman there talked about 'power of attorney' shortly after I'd mentioned deputyship. When I pointed out that the two were quite different she was a bit huffy. It's not my fault if you don't know what you're talking about . I have an appointment for a phone chat with my 'case management team' tomorrow, and I'll bring this up then. This will be my first opportunity to speak to someone who is actually qualified to talk to me about my deputyship. Until this happens I'm stumbling through the dark, so it's no use somebody from the DWP asking me why 'the paperwork hasn't been sent in already'. Can you tell I'm p'ed off with them?

 

[tryingmybest]

Yep I hear you!! Sending you a hug. Just seems to me there is absolutely nobody these days who can do their job properly. People are totally apathetic and simply just don't care. Phones are left ringing for ages and robot-like recorded receptionist messages usually make you have to hang up and start again as by the time you get to the end you've forgotten what you wanted!! Then there's the call centres whose staff read from a script and are unable to deviate from that in any way, shape or form to actually help you. Then you get situations where you have to fly through hoops to justify your very existence! And all this is meant to be progress?? Ha!!

 

[Kevinl]

I had DWP deputyship for my late mother and now have it for my wife and I can only say I've always found the DWP very helpful, normally if I contact them they offer to send someone round usually only a few days later. You have registered deputyship with the DWP, had the interview and all the rest haven't you? If so I'm surprised you're having a problem.
I've said this before on here but I'll say it again, don't use the phone!
One letter will cover them all with a few adaptions, supply your e-mail and phone number and let them contact you.
When you're asked for original documents tell them they must guarantee to return them or pay the cost of a replacement or offer to take them into the local branch and have them checked there, some will let you do this.
I know using the phone is easiest but letters work so much better.
K

 

[theunknown]

I had DWP deputyship for my late mother and now have it for my wife and I can only say I've always found the DWP very helpful, normally if I contact them they offer to send someone round usually only a few days later. You have registered deputyship with the DWP, had the interview and all the rest haven't you? If so I'm surprised you're having a problem.
I've said this before on here but I'll say it again, don't use the phone!
One letter will cover them all with a few adaptions, supply your e-mail and phone number and let them contact you.
When you're asked for original documents tell them they must guarantee to return them or pay the cost of a replacement or offer to take them into the local branch and have them checked there, some will let you do this.
I know using the phone is easiest but letters work so much better.
K

Thanks to you two for your replies. But Kevin, I don't understand what DWP deputyship is. I haven't been told I need to register deputyship with them, or need an interview. My deputyship is lodged with the Court of Protection and I'm not sure why the DWP would need to interview me?

 

[Kevinl]

Thanks to you two for your replies. But Kevin, I don't understand what DWP deputyship is. I haven't been told I need to register deputyship with them, or need an interview. My deputyship is lodged with the Court of Protection and I'm not sure why the DWP would need to interview me?

When my Mum moved in with me (some years ago) I contacted the DWP to tell them her change of address, much like you. They sent 2 ladies to my house to speak to her as they could see her capacity was diminished I was made her "appointee" (link below), likewise I now have appointee status for my wife. This means the DWP will deal with me without any questions being asked and I can:
Sign the benefit claim form
Tell the benefit office about any changes which affect how much the claimant gets
spend the benefit (which is paid directly to you) in the claimant’s best interests
The process is:
1.DWP arranges to visit the claimant to assess if an appointee is needed.
2.DWP interviews you to make sure you’re a suitable appointee.
3.During the interview, you and the interviewer fill out an appointee application form (Form BF56)
4.If DWP agrees with the application you’ll be sent Form BF57 (confirming you’ve been formally appointed to act for the claimant). You’re not the appointee until this happens.
Once you’re authorised, DWP will monitor the situation to make sure it’s still suitable for you and the claimant.
I would have thought your COP order would override the need for this but possibly not!
K
https://www.gov.uk/become-appointee-for-someone-claiming-benefits

 

[Katrine]

If you have POA or Deputyship you don't need to be made a DWP Appointee. You write to DWP enclosing a certified copy of your order. There should be no need for interviews. The COP and OPG have given you legal authority to act, so the DWP doesn't need to make any decisions, they just have to register your authority and contact details.

Last year I was appointed by COP as my mother's Guardian, which is the Scottish equivalent of a Deputy.
I had 6 certified copies of the Order made by my solicitor.

I drew up a list of all the organisations that I thought should be notified. The total came to 20! This is because my mother still lives in her own home. It is usually simpler if you haven't got the adult's household to maintain.

I decided which were the most important/urgent to notify and tackled these first, reasoning that when my certified copies were returned I could then send out a new batch of letters.

I created a proforma letter, and modified it as required for each recipient. In most cases I made a phone call first to be sure I was providing the right evidence. I sent the letters recorded signed for. I always asked in my letter for the certified copy to be returned to me. In most cases it was, often by return of post, whereas their actual response letter usually took 1-4 weeks. These things usually have to be given the once over by their legal department.

Only one pension provider has been absolutely unreasonable. I won't bore you with what I have to do to retain my mother's £112 p.a. but it beggars belief. I jump through all their hoops because this pension represents times of hardship for my parents and I'm b*****ed if I'll let them cheat her out of it!

I attach a copy of my working list, edited to make it more generic, and substituting the word deputy for guardian. If this is useful to anyone else to keep track of your progress, please feel free to use it.

 

[DMac]

Thank you

I attach a copy of my working list, edited to make it more generic, and substituting the word deputy for guardian. If this is useful to anyone else to keep track of your progress, please feel free to use it.

Katrine, thank you for this comprehensive explanation and list. I'm going to pass this to the 2 PoAs in our family to take a look at and take action as needed.

Gosh, I just did not realise what was required to bring a PoA or deputyship into full effect. After more than 5 decades on this planet, I never cease to surprise myself at my complete naivety! I just ASSUMED (and I have learned that ASSUME makes an ASS out of U and ME!) that simply HAVING PoA registered was ENOUGH! Clearly not! There is a whole programme of work required here.

Or, to put it another way, I didn't know what I didn't know, so was in a state of blissful ignorance! Now at least I know something I didn't know - and am now in a state of mild panic!

As a carer for my MIL and DIL (both with dementia and other ailments), I have created a project list of things which need to be dealt with, which I share regularly with family members. I'm going to add this to the list. The list is growing faster than the rate at which items are being ticked off, but that's just the nature of this illness, and the fact that I'm relatively new (about 4 months) into my full-time carer role. It seems that as I resolve one issue, I uncover a couple more and then 3 more come in from the left field!

But thank you for highlighting this important issue. At least now I know the steps to taken to assume full control over MIL's and DIL's affairs!

 

[Katrine]

Thank you for your kind words DMac. Do not panic! You are doing fine, and there's a team of you looking after your MIL and DIL's interests. You never get to the end of the paperwork. Keep a log of what you have achieved as well as your to-do list. You are fortunate in having POA in your family. Deputyship/Guardianship is a much more demanding role administratively because of the level of active scrutiny by OPG.

OH pulled several all-nighters at our home in England completing our first annual Budget Plan, with me simultaneously scrabbling around in Scotland to find misfiled documents. I thought I had the paperwork in good order until I had to start evidencing things for OPG! OH's first effort was rejected by OPG as not being sufficiently detailed and not using their budget line descriptions correctly. We are now finalising our first Annual Account. We have two big ring binders full of all the evidentiary documents they require. These will have to be boxed and sent by an expensive signed for parcel service. Can't risk all that hard work getting lost.

And then there's the ongoing expense after the first year's legal and estate valuation costs. I have just had my mother's house re-valued to keep her estate valuation current. Ker-ching; best part of £300 just for that. Then there's fees to OPG for monitoring the Annual Account, and an eye watering annual indemnity bond to cover any potential financial mismanagement. Our 3-year Guardianship runs for another 1yr10m, then if she survives that long we will have to go back to court and apply to renew it, with all the extra costs and flim-flam involved in that.

If you can get POA registered for your relative, or indeed for yourself, DO IT NOW!

 

[Saffie]

However, they also told me that I need to send an original copy of the Court of Protection order. Now this I've very reluctant to do, as some people on here will understand. I asked if they would return it and was told that I would need to state in my letter that I wanted the order returning. Apparently, they don't return 'copies'. However, if I have to send the original, how does the copy document come into it

I think this is quite usual. It certainly was for me. Most, if not all, the people I contacted wanted to see the original CoP order.
It isn't the problem for Deputies that is is for those with LPAs as we are given about 6 original orders, at least I was. I took them to the banks but had to post a number.

All were returned safely apart from the company, Aviva, who held my husband's life insurance, and this was returned with the page torn and the seal part missing.
I wrote and complained, mentioning my surprise as Aviva, being also the holders of the Deputyship bond, should have known the importance of the seal.
Thet sent me a cheque to cover the cost of a replacement but I didn't need another order as 5 was sufficient.

 

[Hotglove]

Thanks for all the input on this thread, it has answered many of my questions. I am just starting out as a Deputy and will be having my introductory 1hr telephone consultation with the Office of Public Guardian in 2 weeks. Thankfully, my sister has extremely simple finances, but I can imagine that, for many people it is extremely difficult to "Do the right thing" when there are multiple choices about complex finances.
Thanks again