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Deputy, trustee, sale of jointly owned house

123jump

Registered User
Jun 6, 2020
10
I'm hoping someone can clarify things for me as I seem to keep going round in circles.....

Mum has lost capacity (no LPA) and is in a care home. Dad's been paying the bills, but now he's been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and requires a care home too (we do have LPA for him).

We've been avoiding applying for deputyship as it seems so complex, but we can't really avoid it any longer as we need to sell their house to pay for care.

Am I right in thinking I need to apply to be deputy for mum, and another application to be trustee in order to sell their house?

If so, does anyone know if they can be sent to the COP at the same time?

Thanks in advance for any replies
 

Shedrech

Volunteer Moderator
Dec 15, 2012
9,132
Yorkshire
hello @123jump
a warm welcome to DTP
a sad and tricky situation for you all
personally, I would contact the OPG direct either by phone (there will be a queue but you get to explain fully so it's worth the wait) or e-mail (which gives you a reply after some days but it's written so you can keep referring back to it) ... using both ways, I have found them helpful
 

123jump

Registered User
Jun 6, 2020
10
Many thanks for your reply. I spoke to someone at the OPG, who said she didn't know much about deputyship 🤪 and to phone COP. The COP answer phone message says it's only accepting urgent phone calls due to covid. Not sure this constitutes as urgent? I've sent a couple of emails but no joy so far.
 

thistlejak

New member
Jun 6, 2020
4
I might be able to help you as I am in the process of doing the same.
You can apply for both Deputyship and Trusteeship at the same time IF you can provide all the details about the house when you apply.
You will need to complete all the forms to apply to be a deputy - COP1, COP1A, COP3 and COP4
and then complete forms COP1D and COP12 to apply to be a Trustee.
I could not do it in one go as I needed to be the Deputy before I could get the house deeds out of storage ( They were not registered with the Land Registry as they had lived in the house >50 years)
I had a query for COP and have just waited 3 months for them to reply - usually it is within 10 working days
Hope this helps.
 

theunknown

Registered User
Apr 17, 2015
420
I think things must have changed since I applied for deputyship (England) in 2015, and granted it a few months later. I needed to take control of my mum's finances, and also needed to sell her home so I could fund her care home fees and pay other bills. Filled in lots of COP forms and, once I became deputy, was able to sell my mum's house. I never had any communication about applying for trusteeship alongside this, and I never had to provide any details about my mum's house. As if things weren't already difficult enough applying for deputyship, without making the selling of their property a separate issue from this. So now you need to be a deputy and a trustee I assume?

Sorry you're going through this 124jump, and best wishes to all the other people who are now having to jump through even more hoops when you're already going through so many emotional ones.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
12,620
South coast
once I became deputy, was able to sell my mum's house. I never had any communication about applying for trusteeship alongside this, and I never had to provide any details about my mum's house. As if things weren't already difficult enough applying for deputyship, without making the selling of their property a separate issue from this. So now you need to be a deputy and a trustee I assume?
No, its not changed - the reason that @123jump has to get trusteeship is because he is also POA for the joint owner
 

123jump

Registered User
Jun 6, 2020
10
Thanks for all the replies.

Wading through the info, my understanding is that a deputy can sell a property in a sole name, but needs to apply for trustee if house is in joint names. Can anyone confirm?

It's all so confusing 🙄
 

thistlejak

New member
Jun 6, 2020
4
The property that I need to sell is in joint names and neither have capacity or LPA's that is why I had to go down deputy route. I asked on the original application to be able to sell the house but was not granted it as I could not confirm ownership on the first application. Not received Trusteeship yet - application submitted mid March 2020.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
12,620
South coast
Thanks for all the replies.

Wading through the info, my understanding is that a deputy can sell a property in a sole name, but needs to apply for trustee if house is in joint names. Can anyone confirm?

It's all so confusing 🙄
As far as Im aware its because you cant represent both parties who own the house. If you are joint owner with someone who you hold deputyship with (spouse for example), or if you hold deputyship for both owners, or POA for one and deputyship for the other you then need trusteeship, but when I sold mums home it was a straightforward selling because she was the sole owner, so I may have got that wrong.
 

123jump

Registered User
Jun 6, 2020
10
My brother and I have POA on dad (joint and severally) so could he act for dad and I act for mum as deputy- trustee? Or is this a conflict of interest?
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
12,620
South coast
My brother and I have POA on dad (joint and severally) so could he act for dad and I act for mum as deputy- trustee? Or is this a conflict of interest?
Gut feeling is that this is propably OK, but I wouldnt like to be more definite as this is legal matter. Why not ask the COP? I dont know whether you have their phone number, but if not its 0300 4560300 (office hours). I found them very helpful, although there is often a queue (avoid Mondays)
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
20,289
North Manchester
Am I right in thinking I need to apply to be deputy for mum, and another application to be trustee in order to sell their house?
Yes.

Multiple ownership of land must be through a trust, with joint ownership all owners are trustees.
If an owner looses capacity, somebody has to apply to the COP to be appointed a trustee to act for the owner.
A COP deputy can apply to be a trustee, this is a completely different function to that of deputy and requires a separate application.
 

123jump

Registered User
Jun 6, 2020
10
I've emailed COP as apparently they are only taking emergency cases by phone and I'm not sure this counts as emergency...

Thanks for all your replies. Makes me feel less alone/crazy!!
 

123jump

Registered User
Jun 6, 2020
10
Just to update- could be useful to others with a similar problem....

Eventually I got an email response from Court of Protection confirming that I need to make 2 separate applications (2x fees) to become both trustee and deputy for mum. (Trustee in order to act for mum in the sale of the house she jointly owns with dad).

Just about completed the forms and I will be sending them off together.

I'll update as we progress.