Deprivation of Assets

[AbbyGee]

How far back from the time of financial assessment is potential Deprivation of Assets considered?
Should my OH need Residental Care he will be self-funding.
There is work that needs to be done to our home.
If we were to get the work done to help ensure safety, keep a decent standard of decorative order, replace ageing white goods, beds and furniture, and maintain the integrity of the building, how long before that cost is not considered DoA? Some of this work would be necessary to keep the house in a saleable condition.
We would need to use his savings to fund the work.
Are the DoA rules an ever-changing thing? What's the best reference to the facts on this? I really don't want to get started on the slippery slope toward penury through ignorance.

 

[Lynmax]

With mum, I was asked for 15 years of financial records but I think 7 years is more normal. I actually didn’t need to go into too much detail as her ISA accounts alone were evidence that she had sufficient savings to supplement her income for several years.

I believe you can use some funds to keep the house in good repair and also to buy a funeral plan. I’m sure someone else will have more details.

 

[Banjomansmate]

If the house needs repairs I would go ahead and do it, that’s what the savings are for, to keep a roof over your heads. If you spent a fortune on fancy hand made ironwork railings the LA might look askance at the spending but they could hardly object to you carrying out general repairs and maintenance to your own property.

 

[Duggies-girl]

My cousin had new windows and a new kitchen and bathroom in her flat, she also made sure that she had some nice holidays with her 92 year old mum and paid for her husband to go into respite while she was gone. She looks after her husband 24/7 and he is physically disabled as well as having advanced dementia. She has done well to keep him at home this long and intends to look after him for as long as she is able. I think she is a saint because I couldn't cope with what she has. Her husband is like a small child and needs everything doing for him.

You have to have some quality of life and there is nothing wrong with making your home nice, you both live in it.

 

[northumbrian_k]

We installed a new kitchen 4 years ago which was more than justified after living with the previous one since 2000. As with other major capital expenditure, my wife made a contribution. I did wonder if this would be picked up during the financial assessment and was ready with my answer if it was. However I was asked for records for only the 2 years prior to the assessment during which time the only major outgoings were for my wife's care.

 

[Bunpoots]

I was advised (unofficially) by dad’s social worker that if he had any repairs needed to his house to get them done before his financial assessment. He needed a new gas boiler and the carpets which had been ruined by his incontinence to be replaced by something more suitable. This was just weeks before his assessment. I kept receipts but was never asked to see them.

I was only asked for 3 months worth of bank statements. This was late 2018.

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

I am amazed. Are there no rules about this? There are answers above saying the LA have looked back anything from 3 months to 15 years!!! There seems to be no consistency at all. I've also heard of cases where financial assessments have been done then the LA have gone back much later and started questioning spending.

@AbbyGee I recall you saying that you live in a huge, sprawling but slightly shabby mansion
Maintenance/upkeep/repairs to a property are essential.
A new, practical bathroom is fine, one with marble floors and gold taps might not be.
New floors and a stairlift are fine, a new oak spiral staircase with minstrel gallery might not be.
New appliances are fine, though maybe not that huge DeLonghi bean-to-cup coffee maker you've had your eye on...

As I understand it, that's the basic principle with Dep. of Assets. Do what you need to do.

 

[Shedrech]

hi @AbbyGee
you are both still living in the property and your husband has an interest in the property and keeping it in good order as one of his assets .... so go ahead and do what is necessary
you say he will be self-funding anyway
and this is spending that would ordinarily be done, not deliberate deprivation to ensure he will not pay for his care

 

[canary]

When OH had his financial assessment I asked the man who did the assessing (thats not the SW, BTW) about what constitutes Deprivation of Assets. He said that house maintenance, replacement of carpets, sofas and even cars is OK, but best to keep the receipts. I have bought a new car - another Focus (the old one was 16 years old and no longer reliable), but I expect that if I had bought a brand new Lamborghini then eyebrows would have been raised! He also said that the LA can go back indefinitely if they suspect DoA - usually because they think money is being hidden in an undisclosed account, or that large sums of money/property had been gifted to family.

It does not mean that you cannot spend money on things that would be considered reasonable - and especially on things that will benefit the person with dementia - eg spending money on taking them on a holiday or installing a wet room to make it easier to shower them while they are still at home. The crux of it is - has this money been spent/gifted/otherwise disposed of with the intent of depriving that person of funds which would otherwise have been used to pay for care?

 

[AbbyGee]

Thanks each and all. Our home is an ex beer house / public house.
The original build was1874, remodelled in 1905. It was converted into two very odd and bizarre houses around 1976. It needs a fair bit of upkeep on an ongoing basis, like painting The Forth Bridge.
Stuff needs doing and my concern was that by spending on it now it could be perceived as deliberate DoA.
I think I shall take a long hard look at what the priority jobs are and try to get those done with the least disruption. This includes funeral plans although we both only wish for Cremation without Ceremony.
I need to take advice on how utilities and ongoing upkeep would be paid if I can't cover them. If it comes to it I'll have to sell up and rent a room (could afford that on my pension, just) and leave the rest for OH's care.

 

[Melles Belles]

Don’t rush into any decisions on selling up until you have got independent financial advice probably from a SOLLA Society of Later Life financial advisers. I believe you can keep half of any private pension your OH has and retain some of his cash to maintain a jointly owned property.

 

[AbbyGee]

@Jaded'n'faded It's not exactly a sprawling old mansion - just an old old home that constantly reminds us of her age. And a garden that these days defeats me.
I'm dreading the rainstorms that will follow this heat as we have a few - hmmm - not exactly leaks as such but places the water can seep in after the lead flashing, lead roof and flat roof have dried out in the current temperatures. The car port is looking decidedly dodgy so that will probably be dismantled sooner than later.
For two pins I'd sell up now and move to a retirement flat with balcony. If only!

 

[AbbyGee]

@Melles Belles Thanks! I'll look into that. My my, I seem like a right little money grubber, don't I?

 

[Melles Belles]

No you’re not a money grabber. You need to ensure you’re not pushed into homelessness and poverty and most definitely shouldn’t be.

 

[Shedrech]

hi @AbbyGee
money grabber, no ... you and your OH have every right to live in a home that is fit for purpose ... and you are sensible to consider your own possible future situation

even if you sell this property, you are entitled to buy another as long as your OH retains his interest in the new property (whether he lives there or not) ... if you 'downsize' and there is money left over, it is split 50/50 between you
you definitely do not have to use all the proceeds from the sale for your OH's care
(if you feel you'd be more comfortable in a flat, why not look into it)
and you can use his money to pay 50% of the cost of maintenance if he no longer lives in the property

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

@Jaded'n'faded It's not exactly a sprawling old mansion - just an old old home that constantly reminds us of her age. And a garden that these days defeats me.
I'm dreading the rainstorms that will follow this heat as we have a few - hmmm - not exactly leaks as such but places the water can seep in after the lead flashing, lead roof and flat roof have dried out in the current temperatures. The car port is looking decidedly dodgy so that will probably be dismantled sooner than later.
For two pins I'd sell up now and move to a retirement flat with balcony. If only!

Well, you know, that might not be such a bad idea. Like you, my B/F lives in a really old money pit. He says it's fine but really, it's falling apart round his ears. This place has also suffered a bizarre kitchen conversion resulting in two separate bits of kitchen, not to mention the B/F's attempts at DIY over the years. ('This roof/gap/window/door needs fixing - I will nail a couple of pieces of wood over it...') The only way to properly fix it would be to gut the place and start again with new electrics, central heating, etc. And his stairs are like Everest.

Rather than attempt the mammoth task (and expense/disruption/noise/dust and workers leaving you in the lurch...) of sorting it out, moving might make a lot of sense. The upkeep won't get any less in your place, it will get harder and harder to clean, the garden won't get any smaller and as you say, utilities are a concern.

Why not have a look at a few places (after considering what your finances would be.) It's unlikely your property would gain in value what you spent on it to get it into shape and there are always people who are looking for a 'project'.

 

[fromnz123]

The system is definitely hit and miss!

speaking to a friend recently she has had 2 very different experiences with her mother and MIL

in her mother’s case they had to sell the house to pay for her care.

on the other hand, the MIL’s home was sold, some money was given to the family and the rest was used to buy and extended a proterty for her to live with a family member. Within 4 years this had broken down and she was moved into a fully funded care home, with no questions asked!