Dementia Sufferers taken to court

[technotronic]

I was wonder if of you have had the experience of you partner being taken to court for being a nuisance neighbour due to their Dementia.
My wife was accused of throwing things over a neighbours fence last year, things like rubbish, cat faeces n dead mice and rats, they claim to have CCTV evidence of it..well they have the stuff on the ground & my wife near the fence but none of it of her actually throwing it over.
The neighbour did pop round to have a few words about it a few times, a I could do was deny that she'd done it because I hadn't witnessed her doing it at any time.
Then my wife got into an argument with our other neighbour outside on the public footpath over a can my wife had found on our front garden n was accused by said neighbour of throwing said can onto her front garden, as a result they both got in a heated argument resulting in the said neighbour supposedly being threatened with the can.
I thought that it had all blown over to after that till a police man called on my wife while I was at work to talk to her n take a statement. First I knew of this was when I had just finished work that afternoon, phoned my wife n she told me there was a policeman there talking to her.
I quickly rushed home, n he was still there talking to her, he'd taken a statement n got her to sign it in front of me without her having a chance to read it.
He left saying that he would need to see what his supervising officer wanted do about the case n that was last we heard, till we received a letter a few months later notifying her that she had been charged with Harassment of one neighbour and Threatening n behaviour of the other neighbour!
She appeared in court last July and we pleaded guilty to the charge to get it over and done with quick, even though she may not have been guilty, we wanted to spare her the ordeal of a long court trial with way she is.
She was fined n given a Good Behaviour Order for 12 months of which she has four month to do.

Now months later one neighbour has started saying my wife has been throwing grass and bottles on her front garden, we have been to view the CCTV footage n it's virtually worthless as evidence. Just waiting now to hear what will happen.


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[sistermillicent]

I find this to be absolutely unbelievably disgraceful. If a Lord is not being taken to court for prolific child sex abuse because he has dementia then I would certainly not expect your wife to be in court accused of behaviour which in all probability is as a direct result of her illness.
I would get a solicitor or seek advice from the Alzheimers Society, give them a ring. I sincerely hope this is not taken any further.

 

[technotronic]

Hello SisterMillicent
Thank you for your reply
My wife's Dementia is as yet undiagnosed, though she has been to see a consultant and had a CAT scan which revealed no sign of Alzheimer's .
She has what I believe to be Onset Dementia, as she has all the symptoms, memory loss, awareness problems, repetitive speaking, repeatedly asking same questions, problems tempering who people are n what their names are, who I am n what I am to her, names of things n cats we have, how to turn lights on or off, problems remembering where they are etc, the list goes on.
I have to be with her everywhere she goes now, especially outside, to avoid anymore things happening that could cause more trouble, I tend to be up n down like a yo yo most of the time!
We've not heard back yet from police as to how they are going to proceed yet.
I just hope that they will be a bit more sympathetic this time.
As you say, if a Peer won't be prosecuted because of his Dementia, then why should my wife be, they could easily deal with it out of court

John



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[Chuggalug]

Sadly, nothing surprises me any more

Neighbour of mine, when our issues with dementia first hit us; and this had to be within the first few months, came around with the foulest mouth you ever heard in someone well past 80 years old.

Frightened the life outa me, but I gave as good as I got. Never heard from him again about anything. I hate violence of any kind, but this time, he made me angry.

Really hope things get sorted for you both. The situation you're in is worse than tragic.

 

[Hair Twiddler]

If a Lord is not being taken to court for prolific child sex abuse because he has dementia then I would certainly not expect your wife to be in court accused of behaviour which in all probability is as a direct result of her illness.

I could not agree more sistermillicent.

My sad (but totally sympathetic) thought is that if you cause a rumpus and shout and scream about the total injustice at this time when such a high profile case is "in the public eye" then (in my humble opinion) you stand a good chance of being granted your justice; as more than a few papers and news outlets will only be too pleased to highlight your awful situation.

 

[AlsoConfused]

Suggest you contact the police and crown prosecution service explain your wife is being medically investigated to see what type of dementia she has (run through the list of symptoms and the checks she's already had).

Offer to ask your wife to allow her doctors to disclose her dementia history to them, the further checks they're conducting etc. Explain you accept it was a mistake for your wife to plead guilty to the earlier charge when her condition even at the time meant she was ill but innocent; but the decision was taken in a well-meaning effort to protect her as someone too vulnerable to cope with the pressures of a court case. Ask the police and crown prosecution service what you can do to get that earlier miscarriage of justice set aside.

I'm sure you don't give a damn about the past - but the neighbour's "success" in making the earlier charge stick could affect the police and CPS response now.

The real purpose of your conversation with police and crown prosecution service is to get a pretty rapid back-tracking as regards the new charge. Also take the opportunity to get your wife on the police radar as a "vulnerable person" whom officers should look out for if she seems at risk (eg wandering on her own late at night in bitterly cold weather dressed only in flimsy indoor clothing). Good luck!

 

[technotronic]

Thank you for your lovely comments, it's nice to hear from you on this subject.
Have started a twitter account called Brighter Days (@tiggawig) to highlight situation of Dementia suffers being taken to court.
Got no followers as yet, but am hoping people are reading what I am putting on there n will take notice, maybe even those that work in the CPS.

John


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[Spiro]

Do you have a local carer's association who could offer you support? They might be able to direct you to an advocacy service. It might be an idea to contact Citizens Advice and your local MP.

Just thinking ahead, applying for an LPA for health and welfare as well as finance and property might be worth looking into.

You have my sympathy. Society has a way to go before the stigma of dementia is eradicated.

 

[CeliaW]

So sorry to read this. I wonder if your wife has had a social services assessment of need and you a carers assessment? This adds some official input (please don't think I am doubting your comments) and not only could be helpful in future discussions but also might throw up some useful help and support for both of you.

If you search on here you will find a range of posts regarding Carers assessment and assessment of someone with care needs - including details of the new Care Act that came into effect this month.

I wish you every success - I also wish that people like yourselves didn't have to be put in such awful situations.

Take care.

 

[technotronic]

Update on our situation re possibility of my wife being taken to court.

We were visited by the PC involved in the case last Tuesday evening, 5/5/15, with what I thought was either more trouble or an update of what's happening with the case.
When I opened the door to him, he was quite friendly, unfortunately my response was " now what!". He replied no it's good news.
I reacted as I did thinking that there had been more complaints, but was pleased to know there wasn't.

He said he'd had a word with his sergeant (CPS) n he said that if we agreed to the three following things the case wouldn't go to court:
1. Promise not to cause any more trouble to the neighbours.
2. To make an appointment with the doctor to discuss her problem, within two weeks.
3.To let him (the PC) know that we'd done that, within two weeks.

To which we agreed and we both signed, though my wife has no comprehension of what she was signing.

I asked for a copy of the agreement we had signed, to which he agreed, but wouldn't let us have a copy of the whole document as it had our neighbours details on it.

He said that he would drop it round when next he was around here, that he would be round again in two weeks, n another time after that.

So far we have not seen him or heard anything from him so far.

I have to be everywhere my wife is whenever she goes outside, in case any more trouble or anti social behaviour happens.
All I want is to get all this sorted out, so we have no more hassle n I can concentrate more on looking after her with no outside problems.
As it is each day her condition deteriorates more n more, with her awareness, memory n cognisance of things.


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[esmeralda]

I'm very glad common sense has prevailed in this matter techno. Sorry for your ongoing day to day problems though, it sounds like a very exhausting business caring for your wife as you do. As Celia said, hopefully you have been referred or made a referral to Social Services. You desperately need some help so that you can have at least some sort of break. Best wishes. Es

 

[truth24]

Glad to hear your news but it still shouldn't have come to that in the first place. Shame on your neighbours too for starting this off.

 

[Saffie]

This has been a sad and troublesome time for you. So much for Dementia-friendly!

My wife's Dementia is as yet undiagnosed, though she has been to see a consultant and had a CAT scan which revealed no sign of Alzheimer's .

I really don't think the above is relevant as Alzheimer's rarely shows up on a CAT scan. It is mainly used to exclude other causes of dementia which leads to the diagnosis of Alzheimer's when it is obvious that dementia is present.

I'm glad it has been sorted out for the present but your wife is unlikley to remember that she can't carry on as she did before. However I hope that both the police and neighbours will be more understanding in future.

 

[Chuggalug]

I would echo Esmerelda's comment, Technotronic. You're being pushed too far. It's so not fair.

 

[WIFE]

How sad is modern society when the person with dementia is the one who is most vilified by the authorities. Not the anti-social and unsympathetic neighbours but your wife who obviously cannot help herself due to her mental issues. I despair that even after all the exposure dementia - in all its forms - has received recently there is still such an air of disgust and disgrace surrounding it - as though the sufferers deserved it. When asked about my husband these days I proudly tell people he suffered with severe dementia which finally - being a terminal illness like some cancers - killed him and then watch with interest the multitude of different emotions which cross their faces. I always finish with "maybe your turn next!".

Sincerely hope you get a swift resolution to these unnecessary stresses you and your wife are being put through Technotronic and will be thinking of you both. WIFE

 

[AlsoConfused]

I'm delighted there's to be no court case. What I'm suggesting is intended to ensure there will be NO repetition of these legal problems.

If you can find the energy (I know it's a big ask!), please try to put together in written form:-

- (a) the medical case (eg GP's diagnosis, details of tests done even though they can't confirm the diagnosis until later, etc) showing your wife is ill, with a disease that'll get worse not better; and

- (b) the case showing you are doing your best to prevent a woman possibly not at all not mentally responsible for her actions from inconveniencing the complaining neighbours.

Then ask the police to arrange an appointment for you at the station with a dementia aware police officer as you want to avoid there being any future difficulties due to your wife's dementia and the relations with the neighbour. Show your dossier to him / her.

Point out you are determined to do everything you can to prevent friction with the neighbour and keep relationships sweet ... BUT providing 24 / 7 supervision of a vulnerable adult is a challenge. You don't want to forestall ANY inappropriate future legal problems.

Ask the police officer to document the meeting and provide you with a transcript. Good luck!

 

[tre]

You say the neighbours have set up a camera and allege they have evidence of your wife being the culprit. It might be a good idea to set up something similar from your side so you could be sure what she is up to. This may prove it is her but then it would be useful to show this to the Gp as it may assist in his diagnosis.
The trouble is some people with dementia do very odd out of character things, which they cannot control. I think maybe if you focus a lot on this problem, and keep talking about it with her, it is more likely to re-enforce the behaviour rather than stop it.
If you do find your wife is the culprit could you maybe raise the level of the fence or perhaps put some wire mesh at the top so that it would be more difficult to throw things over.
With regard to courts and patients awaiting diagnosis, my husband prior to diagnosis was called for Jury Service and this caused a problem. They would not talk to me and would only defer for six months. My husband has an unusual early onset dementia and we had many tests that had ruled stuff out but no formal diagnosis. I was at my wits end. Luckily, I told his consultant's secretary who suggested I typed out a letter explaining there were problems as yet undiagnosed, got my husband to sign it, and gave details of the consultant and permission for them to contact him. After two weeks my husband got a letter from them saying he was exempted from Jury Service. I have just told you this so you know how difficult legal stuff can be without a formal diagnosis.
I hope it all works out for you.
Tre

 

[technotronic]

Hi Tre

I had a similar situation two to three years ago in the earlier stages of my wife's Dementia where my she was called for jury.
I had to fill a form in n I also wrote a letter explaining the circumstances of her Dementia in full n why she couldn't do jury service, two of the reasons were that she was frightened to go out for long n that she rarely left the house unless I was with her.
A short time later we received a letter excluding her from jury service, as she is in her early 70's n with reasons for not being able to do jury service I don't think she'll be called for jury service again. Result!


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[technotronic]

Have now managed to obtain an appointment for my wife to see a doctor this coming Friday to discuss her 'problem' as the police called it.
I sent an email to the practice manager in early hours of this morning, with a request to see a doctor this week n telling her the details of why n the urgency of it, but writing it as though my wife had written it n the request was from her.
I phoned later this morning when I thought the practice might be open, n spoke to the practice manager, asking if she had had a chance to read 'my wife's' email, she said that she had n she was arranging an appointment n would phone us back later today with details of it, she said she wanted to get her in as soon as possible given the circumstances n urgency.
My wife got a little upset when I said the doctor wanted to see her, but with lots of reassurances that it would be alright n that they don't mind if I am there with her when she sees the doctor, as is have to explain it all to him for her, she slowly accepted going to see the doctor this week.
All praise to the practice manager for her understanding of the circumstances n urgency of the appointment.


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[AlsoConfused]

Definitely good news, congrats.