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Dementia care home fees - London

beatrice

Registered User
Oct 18, 2010
15
London
Hello - i haven't posted for a while but i need some info from my peers here at TP.

Dad is currently in housing with care in the Midlands. I live in London. I've travelled up every weekend for about 5 years now and it is exhausting. I looked into moving him but hit a brick wall of stuff i won’t go into. However, two things have happened: his dementia has reached a stage where the HWC say they can no longer meet his needs (i told them this a while ago but no one listened) and the HWC home itself is going to close down next year.

the Midlands social services say that they would only fund dad’s place in dementia care in London to the same value as they would in London - around £400 (is that per week - i forgot to ask, but it seems quite low for a monthly figure) and i would have to make up any difference.

Now i can manage £200 a week on top of that but no more (bang goes my idea of saving for a deposit on a house). So what i want to know is how much do dementia care homes in London cost? i’ve no idea.

His Midlands social worker suggested dad move in with me temporarily - this is just the most ridiculous suggestion ever! I live in a tiny studio flat and it would be dangerous for him. And apart from that, I would have to give up work to look after him.

Is there anything i can do to get him moved near me? I just want to improve his quality of life by being closer so that he can get out more and have the care he needs.
 

Bod

Registered User
Aug 30, 2013
1,235
Iam in north Hampshire, average we're looking at is £800-1000 per week.
But it all depends on the level of care needed.
Phone around your local homes, that will give you an idea of cost, and availability.

Bod
 

fizzie

Registered User
Jul 20, 2011
2,730
I live in Hertfordshire and homes here and in North London - just average and not great homes are £800 - £1200 a week. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I didn't know anywhere was £400 a week - your council must get an amazing deal for block booking - or are they basing the cost on your HWC ? If so that is cheating as they would have to fund a care home for him where he lives if HWC won't have him. Someone else must know this but can you ask your council to negotiate on your behalf for somewhere near you - they get much better deals on home places than the general public!! We also have extra care housing with an in house care team and up to 4 visits a day, that is much cheaper than a home. I'm also not sure how they can charge you a top up when it is about your dad - your income shouldn't even be taken into account!!

Someone else will be along soon with more knowledge on this i'm sure.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
11,947
London
I think the above quoted rates may be self-funding rates. Every borough in London/the UK have their own rates so you would have to ring up Social Services in your borough and ask them. I think my borough's rates are a little under £500. However, don't let them bully you into paying any top up fees just yet. The rule is that they have to find a home that meets his needs. If they can't for this rate, they will have to up it. Only if you said you wanted a different more expensive home would you have to pay the difference. I think the problem comes because these are different boroughs and a home in the Midlands might have cheaper rates than one in London. Ask your borough how they would deal with this!
 
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fizzie

Registered User
Jul 20, 2011
2,730
I think the above quoted rates may be self-funding rates. Every borough in London have their own rates so you would have to ring up Social Services in your borough and ask them. I think my borough's rates are a little under £500. However, don't let them bully you into paying any top up fees just yet. The rule is that they have to find a home that meets his needs. If they can't for this rate, they will have to up it. Only if you said you wanted a different more expensive home would you have to pay the difference. I think the problem comes because these are different boroughs and a home in the Midlands might have cheaper rates than one in London. Ask your borough how they would deal with this!
oh my word Beate that is a massive difference isn't it between the self funding charge and the council payment - no wonder it is so high!
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
20,053
North Manchester
You can get an estimate of the LA tariff for any postcode by using the >>>BBC COST CALCULATOR<<<
The calculator was based on the second phase of the Care Act 2014 which was supposed to take effect next year but has been delayed until 2020.
It does however give the average rate paid by the LA.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
11,947
London
Ah yes, that's where I got it from, thank you. Our East London council's weekly average rate comes up as £487.64.
 

fizzie

Registered User
Jul 20, 2011
2,730
bloomin heck ours is 561 and i don't know anyone in our carers group who pays less than 850 - thats 300 more a week
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
11,947
London
I guess that's the council's buying power for you! I'm not sure every home has to accept their rates though but many do it because it's guaranteed income.
 

fizzie

Registered User
Jul 20, 2011
2,730
Yes you are right Beate but it really annoys me - not because I want anyone not to get the care I need - I do want them to have care and better care but to pay all the right taxes and then to charged another 40% on what the council pay to subsidise really naffs me off - need to stop getting naffed off lol, doesn't do any good hahahaha
back to Nemo eh hun xx
 

Witzend

Registered User
Aug 29, 2007
4,291
SW London
Our council's weekly rate is over £900!!!

No, I don't live in Kensington or Chelsea, merely Kingston, which didn't even count as London not so long ago.
 

fizzie

Registered User
Jul 20, 2011
2,730
golly gosh that is unbeleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevable - your homes must be megabucks or you have a good council that doesn't expect fees to be subsidised in other ways!! My guess is that it is probably the former lol
 

Linbrusco

Registered User
Mar 4, 2013
1,611
Auckland...... New Zealand
Out of curiousity, when the UK has a universal NHS system, alot like New Zealand, why does a lot of your health care and residential care depend on where you live? There is such a disparity it beggars belief!? Is this the postcode lottery I have heard mentioned before?
The only difference here in NZ depending on where you live.. Low income/high income area is the costs you pay to see a GP. Still largely subsidised by our Health System.
Eg low income area you would pay GBP10, high income area GBP30

Residential/Nursing home care, funding thresholds etc are essentially the same no matter where you live.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
11,947
London
Yeah I guess it's because each council can set their own financial criteria for providing social care according to their means or how much they plan to set aside for this just as they can with other council services I guess. Local councillors have a lot to answer for! The New Care Act is in place nationwide but it's up to the individual council how to interpret and implement it. They haven't been given a single penny more by the government so have to be creative. Most services are means-tested in some way.
 
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fizzie

Registered User
Jul 20, 2011
2,730
Costs change because there is such a difference is property prices - or that is the theory. I'm just bleating because if we self fund ie have savings and pensions then the cost is about 40% higher than the council pay for a place in the same care home so if you have savings and have been lucky enough to be in a job with a pension you pay taxes, then use your savings which is fair enough but you are also subsidising the council with effectively a hidden tax!! Welcome to rip off Britain. I feel another letter to the press coming on lol
 

nannylondon

Registered User
Apr 7, 2014
2,475
London
Hi my husband's care home which is in North London costs £900 a week council pays £600 the rest comes from his pensions hope you find a,solution x
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,038
Staffs
Is there anything i can do to get him moved near me? I just want to improve his quality of life by being closer so that he can get out more and have the care he needs.
I cannot help with costs in London but that £400 you quote is per week. Where I live in Staffs it is £410 and the LA were only able to offer one home at that price in a shared room.:eek:

Obviously before an LA will agree to any funding they will have to do an assessment to see if your Dad needs to go into a CH. If you ask the Midlands LA (MLA) then they will become responsible for providing care and funding it for the rest of your Dad's life.

As said by "Beate" above the MLA have to be able to provide at least one home that can meet your Dad's needs. However that only has to be in their area where they are able to block book. They are not obliged to find one in London. If you decide to move your Dad to London you will have to find it although the LLA may be able to offer some help. The MLA have to approve your choice and also consider upping their rate to that of the LLA if it is higher. Again my LA have refused to do that in my Mom's case.
The MLA can then delegate their hands on obligations to the LLA.

I would imagine the SW is being a bit sneeky in saying your Dad should move in with you and an attempt to change your Dad's "Ordinary Residence" status so the LLA become liable and carry out an assessment meaning the MLA have no involvement at all. ;)

I wish you well.:)
 

beatrice

Registered User
Oct 18, 2010
15
London
Update (sort of)

Hello everyone,
I could use some advice again...
I looked at a care home in the Midlands recommended by dad's social worker. He didn't seem to think much of it but the social worker was adamant that it is the best one in the city and online reviews and CQC report were good. The home explained that although they had a room available offering it to my dad would be conditional on someone from the home assessing my dad.

Someone came out and spent 30 mins with him (i was going to be there but train delays meant i couldn't make it on time but she waited for me to get there to speak to me) and she told me that she didn't think their facility was appropriate for my dad - she said that their residents were mostly at advanced stage and my dad was clearly nowhere near that yet and she'd had a pleasant half hour chat with him. She told me that to place him in their facility would not be in his best interests and would cause him to deteriorate rapidly.

I told Dad's social worker of the outcome of the visit and she was outraged - she told me that clearly i'd influenced the assessor and she would ask them to send someone out to do another assessment! I asked her if she was accusing the care worker who made the assessment of being incompetent and told her that i wasn't prepared to put my dad somewhere that will make him worse - at which point she hung up on me!

I'm so over with trying to deal with people up there - i want my dad in London more than ever. How do i make this happen?
 

Spiro

Registered User
Mar 11, 2012
522
I'm so over with trying to deal with people up there - i want my dad in London more than ever. How do i make this happen?
Your Dad is ordinarily resident in the Midlands. The LA aren't going to pay for a care home in London.

I have been told by someone who works for the LA in my area, that they have been approached by people wishing to transfer a family member to a home this area, not realising that there is a difference of £700 pw.
 
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