Is there anyone else who is trying to deal with dementia complicated by Narcissistic Personality Disorder? We are finding that most of the literature offering advice on how to deal with certain situations doesn't really help much and even our most experienced carers are having difficulties.
Dementia and NPD
- Thread starter JDET
- Start date
Not officially but my daughter works in mental health and the evidence is very definitely there. Frighteningly so in fact.
Perhaps you could give specific examples of problematic situations, and techniques that haven't worked?
I ask because often dementia is a disease where narcissistic behaviour is the rule rather than the exception, so I'm wondering where the stumbling blocks are (with the understanding that every PWD is unique and that what works one minute may not work the next).
I ask because often dementia is a disease where narcissistic behaviour is the rule rather than the exception, so I'm wondering where the stumbling blocks are (with the understanding that every PWD is unique and that what works one minute may not work the next).
Narcissistic behavour due to dementia is especially prevalent when the frontal lobes are affected. It looks very much like a mental health problem, but it isnt - its due to the dementia. In fact, Frontotemperal dementia (FTD) is frequently originally misdiagnosed as a mental health disorder.
How long has the narcissistic behaviour been there and do you know what sort of dementia she has?
If you explain what sort of problems you are having someone will probably be able to give advice on what may help
How long has the narcissistic behaviour been there and do you know what sort of dementia she has?
If you explain what sort of problems you are having someone will probably be able to give advice on what may help
The evidence of NPD has been there for a very long time, since her childhood if the accounts of her siblings are true which they no doubt are. Her sister was terrified of her. When I was made aware that NPD was likely and looked at the case studies, points to look for etc it was a real light bulb moment of understanding why her behaviour was as it was. The biggest indicator is that she left her only child with her parents to bring up when he was only four and refused to take him back when she remarried because by her own admission she enjoyed going to work and didn’t want him interfering with her social life.
The most problematic situation we have is her refusal to let her carers do anything at all and expecting us to make the 320 mile round trip every week because “I’ve looked after people all my life” Until recently, despite my husband having treatment for skin cancer, we have been doing that. Now it’s once a fortnight. We never told her about the cancer. There was no point as she would only accuse my husband of lying, as she has done repeatedly throughout his life. I have found that it’s easier to just do what needs to be done, eg change her bed linen, clean her bathroom, put a meal in front of her without asking. She doesn’t like it but she doesn’t argue. It’s a different story with the carers however, hence the need for the fortnightly trips.
Her dementia is senile and vascular by the way but she is still able to recognise us even though she confuses grandchildren sometimes. Residential care is not an option at the moment- she is too aware and doesn’t want it which I can understand but if sh continues to refuse even basic care, her personal care deteriorates even further and my husband gets ill again we may have no choice.
The most problematic situation we have is her refusal to let her carers do anything at all and expecting us to make the 320 mile round trip every week because “I’ve looked after people all my life” Until recently, despite my husband having treatment for skin cancer, we have been doing that. Now it’s once a fortnight. We never told her about the cancer. There was no point as she would only accuse my husband of lying, as she has done repeatedly throughout his life. I have found that it’s easier to just do what needs to be done, eg change her bed linen, clean her bathroom, put a meal in front of her without asking. She doesn’t like it but she doesn’t argue. It’s a different story with the carers however, hence the need for the fortnightly trips.
Her dementia is senile and vascular by the way but she is still able to recognise us even though she confuses grandchildren sometimes. Residential care is not an option at the moment- she is too aware and doesn’t want it which I can understand but if sh continues to refuse even basic care, her personal care deteriorates even further and my husband gets ill again we may have no choice.
Honestly, her current behaviour doesn't sound much different to a lot of people with dementia. Although to be fair, I have sometimes seen that dementia can make a person "more so" (although it's also true that it can cause a complete character change so...)
Anyway, whatever she might have as well as dementia, you still have to deal with the situation as it exists. If you want to. I have to say that because there is no legal requirement for you or your husband to do anything for her. Her LA has a duty towards her as a vulnerable adult, but no one else does.
I'm saying this not to recommend you drop her like a hot potato, but to highlight that anything you do for her is in your gift.
It sounds to me as if you are asking "how do we make her accept carers" yes? That's a very usual question I'm afraid and there isn't one answer. At the most extreme you could take the take it or leave it approach: here are the carers and we aren't coming every fortnight. Of course the problem with that, putting aside your own sense of guilt is that if she thinks she is taking care of herself (does she?) she'll just say "fine".
Sometimes, sadly, when a person is completely resistant to care the only option for a family is to step aside and permit a crisis to occur.
Anyway, whatever she might have as well as dementia, you still have to deal with the situation as it exists. If you want to. I have to say that because there is no legal requirement for you or your husband to do anything for her. Her LA has a duty towards her as a vulnerable adult, but no one else does.
I'm saying this not to recommend you drop her like a hot potato, but to highlight that anything you do for her is in your gift.
It sounds to me as if you are asking "how do we make her accept carers" yes? That's a very usual question I'm afraid and there isn't one answer. At the most extreme you could take the take it or leave it approach: here are the carers and we aren't coming every fortnight. Of course the problem with that, putting aside your own sense of guilt is that if she thinks she is taking care of herself (does she?) she'll just say "fine".
Sometimes, sadly, when a person is completely resistant to care the only option for a family is to step aside and permit a crisis to occur.
Have to agree with @jenniferpa . If you have a good browse around the forum, you will see discussions on this and other similar themes, including the seeming total "selfishness" of a person with dementia. It's very hard, particularly when they look outwardly the same as always, and a lot of the time, sound as they always had.
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Unfortunately her current behaviour is not that much different to what it has been for the last 90 odd years by all accounts. In some ways she is easier to deal with now than she was 40 odd years ago ( or nearly 70 in the case of my husband) as she no longer has the capacity to cause the trouble she has in the past and, yes, I think she really does believe that she is taking care of herself. She believes she does her own shopping even though she hasn't been out of the house on her own for nearly three years. I'm not sure really what I am asking, although you have possibly given me the answer if that makes sense. We wont walk away. If we were going to do that we should have done it years ago, but it is sort of comforting to know that at least somebody thinks it's an option! You are also right about the 'take it or leave it' strategy. That was the way we got her to accept the carers in the first place when she had more capacity and if my husband becomes ill again, which is likely, we will have to increase the care.
As for the LA, getting any sort of help has been like drawing teeth. I gave up on that ages ago & we pay for private care.
Unfortunately her current behaviour is not that much different to what it has been for the last 90 odd years by all accounts. In some ways she is easier to deal with now than she was 40 odd years ago ( or nearly 70 in the case of my husband) as she no longer has the capacity to cause the trouble she has in the past and, yes, I think she really does believe that she is taking care of herself. She believes she does her own shopping even though she hasn't been out of the house on her own for nearly three years. I'm not sure really what I am asking, although you have possibly given me the answer if that makes sense. We wont walk away. If we were going to do that we should have done it years ago, but it is sort of comforting to know that at least somebody thinks it's an option! You are also right about the 'take it or leave it' strategy. That was the way we got her to accept the carers in the first place when she had more capacity and if my husband becomes ill again, which is likely, we will have to increase the care.
As for the LA, getting any sort of help has been like drawing teeth. I gave up on that ages ago & we pay for private care.
FTD is not the same as Alzheimers and from what you have said I doubt that FTD is what she has.
Dementia does indeed cause narcissistic behavior, but if that were there beforehand, it will just enhance it.
My mum had Alzheimers and she would not accept cares coming in. She too thought that she was doing all her own shopping, laundry, housework, cooking etc, even though one glance at her house would tell you otherwise. She wanted me to give up my job, leave my OH (who had FTD symptoms, but not yet diagnosed) and go and live with her so that I could look after her. Im afraid that this sort of mentality is very common - and I would stress that mum prior to Alzheimers was loving, caring and empathetic who would never have asked me to do that.
Getting carers in is a very difficult problem. Im sure that other people who have managed this will respond, but actually I never did manage it. It took a crisis in the form of a TIA (mini stroke) for mum to get the help she needed, which was residential care. Im sure that this was much earlier than it would have been if she had accepted carers, but we can only do what we can do.
Hello there, we are in the same situation as you have been. Mum was treated for schizophrenia many years ago but has had an NPD type personality for as long as I can remember, The damage she has done over the years would be enough to write a book (including suing her own grandchildren). She. Ow has dementia and paranoia and after being taken into hospital with confusion recently has made up some nasty stories about us. They won’t really stack up as we have family and friends to support us. However it reminds us of everything she has done once again. Sadly she will now end up in a nursing home. She always pays the highest price for her destruction. Please let me know how you are.
Hello @kaytee, you are welcome here and I hope you find the forum to be a friendly and supportive place.
Unfortunately the person to whom you have replied has not been active on the forum for more than a year so you may not get a reply.
Do take a good look around the site as it is a goldmine for information. When I first joined I read old threads for information but then found the AS Publications list and the page where a post code search can be done to check for support services in ones own area. If you are interested in these, clicking the following links will take you there
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/publications-factsheets-full-list
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/find-support-near-you
You will see that there are Factsheets that will help with things like getting care needs assessments, deciding the level of care required and sorting out useful things like Wills, Power of Attorney etc., if you need these.
Now that you have found us I hope you will keep posting as the membership has vast collective knowledge and experience.
If you have any specific questions just feel free to start your own thread in this sub-forum https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/forums/i-care-for-a-person-with-dementia.70/
