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Deliberate Deprivation Of Assets

nita

Registered User
Dec 30, 2011
1,987
0
Essex
How is the LPA worded - do you act jointly or jointly and severally? If jointly you should have been consulted otherwise either attorney can act independently.

In the latter case, I wondered if you could contact the OPG who oversee Lasting Powers of Attorney and tell them that your father has not acted in your mother's best interests by allowing her to give away such a large proportion of her assets. This would of course be reporting your father as an irresponsible attorney and I'm not sure whether you would want to do this.
 

Firecatcher

Registered User
Jan 6, 2020
53
0
How is the LPA worded - do you act jointly or jointly and severally? If jointly you should have been consulted otherwise either attorney can act independently.

In the latter case, I wondered if you could contact the OPG who oversee Lasting Powers of Attorney and tell them that your father has not acted in your mother's best interests by allowing her to give away such a large proportion of her assets. This would of course be reporting your father as an irresponsible attorney and I'm not sure whether you would want to do this.

The LPA is worded so we. can act both jointly and severally. At the time this seemed a good option in view of the fact I don’t live locally. I don’t think my Dad has been irresponsible and has probably simply wanted to avoid conflict. My Mum has always had a dominant personality and I imagine this trait will be more pronounced as her Alzheimer’s progresses. I really regret my decision about taking on POA and wish there was a way out.
 

Weasell

Registered User
Oct 21, 2019
764
0
Do your parents own the home they live in and how is it owned? If your Father should pass before your Mother and his half of the house became your Mums then she has a sizeable asset that can be sold if she has to go into care. If your Father is still alive when she goes into care then the house is disregarded because he needs to live there.

LPA also means that the person who has the LPA has to work in the best interests of the person they are acting for. Gifts can be given as long as they are in line with gifts already given but certainly not a gift that would wipe out a large portion of any assets. It will depend how your Mother’s local authority deals with what they see. Many LAs are now struggling to cover what they have to cover and there is every possibility that they will dig deep. Its very much a wait and see situation for you. It’s sad that the charity seem set on keeping the money.,
So much good advice and useful information for you.
Jaymor correctly says ‘ Its very much a wait and see situation for you’
and that worries me.
This problem is yours by default, you did nothing wrong.
Depending what type of person you are this sort of problem can niggle in your brain, it could be with you for years, and I think things like this are bad for your mental health.
Do you not have a duty of care to look after yourself?
I personally would go to the social services and do what my old nan would describe as ‘monkey on your back’!
They have access to a legal team? Let them chase the charity if they feel so strongly?
I would also be mentioning my concerns that my father could have dementia as well?
Then when the day comes you will have evidence this situation has been addressed.
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
1,018
0
High Peak
The LPA is worded so we. can act both jointly and severally. At the time this seemed a good option in view of the fact I don’t live locally. I don’t think my Dad has been irresponsible and has probably simply wanted to avoid conflict. My Mum has always had a dominant personality and I imagine this trait will be more pronounced as her Alzheimer’s progresses. I really regret my decision about taking on POA and wish there was a way out.
The thing is, it IS irresponsible for your dad to allow your mum to give a huge amount of money away. Both of them will need that money to pay for care! I understand that she is giving him a hard time, but surely he could have told her he'd do it but not actually go ahead with making the payment?

For whatever reason your dad is NOT acting in your mum's best interests.

Definitely contact the Charities Commission. Tell them you think the charity acted wrongly because they knew your mum has dementia. Say that she is a vulnerable adult and the charity are taking advantage. Ask for their help to get the money returned.
 

Sirena

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
2,294
0
I hope the information given by other posters will help you get the donation returned. But if not, please don't worry about the LA ever coming after you to pay fees due to deprivation of assets.

It sounds as if the POA has not been activated, because your dad is 'unofficially' taking care of both his and your mother's finances. If you do not have access to the POA you cannot be held responsible for the fact the money has been given away.

Your dad may be held responsible, and he may in future be asked to pay the care home fees, but that's his issue (presumably he could sell the house to do so). Hopefully though you will be able to get the donation returned from the charity - please let us know.
 

Firecatcher

Registered User
Jan 6, 2020
53
0
Once again many, many thanks for all the support and advice about this. I realise compared to what others are dealing with it’s very minor so I’m overwhelmed by everyone’s kindness in taking the time to respond. I’ll keep posting about how things progress.
 

Firecatcher

Registered User
Jan 6, 2020
53
0
I’ve managed to speak to my Dad and he said he felt under duress when my Mum wanted to make the donation but felt that standing in her way would lead to tantrums and distress. He confirmed that she’s totally emptied her bank account although he still has some money in his own name.

Yesterday my Mum phoned me to ask if I’d look for a nursing home close to where I live. No mention of the donation of course. I feel this is definite evidence of how her judgement is compromised and have emailed the charity but doubt it will have any impact.

I won’t be looking for a nursing home or at least not just yet and am not sure whether I’d want my Mum on the doorstep anyway.
 

Sirena

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
2,294
0
I agree with you, don't do anything about the nursing home. In any case it's likely she will change her mind or won't even remember she asked.

I'm afraid that by avoiding upsetting your mother, your dad has just added his own bad decision-making to hers. She is increasingly going to make poor decisions and insist he enacts them so he needs to review how he's going to handle this. As her LPA he must act in her best interests, not take the the line of least resistance.
 

Veritas

Registered User
Jun 15, 2020
69
0
I’ve managed to speak to my Dad and he said he felt under duress when my Mum wanted to make the donation but felt that standing in her way would lead to tantrums and distress. He confirmed that she’s totally emptied her bank account although he still has some money in his own name.

Yesterday my Mum phoned me to ask if I’d look for a nursing home close to where I live. No mention of the donation of course. I feel this is definite evidence of how her judgement is compromised and have emailed the charity but doubt it will have any impact.

I won’t be looking for a nursing home or at least not just yet and am not sure whether I’d want my Mum on the doorstep anyway.
You need to get on to the charity ASAP and make it clear that you will take it further if they don't return the donation. I really think the Charity Commission would be unimpressed by their behaviour, as it so clearly runs against best practice guidance. If your mother has cleared her account in this way, it just demonstrates how far removed from reality she now is, and the charity has to acknowledge that.
 
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Sarasa

Registered User
Apr 13, 2018
2,069
0
@Firecatcher, I hope the charity agree to return the donation without too much hassle. Certainly if they refuse, get on to the charity commission and/or your MP.
I can understand where your father is coming from though. Last year my mother insisted she wanted to go on a cruise. I thought this was a very bad idea. Her behaviour was volatile to put it mildly, and even if accompanied by someone she couldn't be trusted not to have a meltdown and accuse people of all sorts. Reading between the lines she'd done similar on the last cruise she'd been on three years earlier so there was no way I wanted to book one for her. In the end she had a fit of hysterics and my brother felt we ought to indulge her. Much against my better judgement we booked a cruise for her , me and my sister-in-law. As the cruise drew nearer two things happened. Mum's dementia worsened, so much so that my brother had to admit there was a real problem, and he became seriously ill which meant my sister in law couldn't go. In the end I moved mum into a care home and had a load of hassle to get the money back. She was not happy at the move and I dreaded her anger when she realised the cruise was off. Instead she seemed to have thought we'd been and said things like 'It was OK, but next time I think I'll go one my own.' I just made vague noises about having quite enjoyed it and breathed a sigh of relief.
Can your dad use his POA to contact your mum's bank to ensure they don't let her move large sums?
 

Duggies-girl

Registered User
Sep 6, 2017
2,155
0
I would hate to see the charity get away with this. Even if the dementia hadn't been mentioned they should give it back (in my opinion) but the fact that they knew about the diagnosis puts them in a very bad light. I would be shouting it from the rooftops to anyone who would listen.

There are ethics involved here. They are not allowed to accept money from criminals or anyone who lacks capacity and by her very actions your mother has confirmed that she lacks capacity.

I do have some sympathy for your poor dad though.
 

Firecatcher

Registered User
Jan 6, 2020
53
0
I would hate to see the charity get away with this. Even if the dementia hadn't been mentioned they should give it back (in my opinion) but the fact that they knew about the diagnosis puts them in a very bad light. I would be shouting it from the rooftops to anyone who would listen.

There are ethics involved here. They are not allowed to accept money from criminals or anyone who lacks capacity and by her very actions your mother has confirmed that she lacks capacity.

I do have some sympathy for your poor dad though.

Thank you. I’ll certainly be taking this further if they don’t return the donation. It’s difficult though as this is one of the larger charities so basically I’m dealing with a large corporation who can afford a good legal team.
 

Firecatcher

Registered User
Jan 6, 2020
53
0
@Firecatcher, I hope the charity agree to return the donation without too much hassle. Certainly if they refuse, get on to the charity commission and/or your MP.
I can understand where your father is coming from though. Last year my mother insisted she wanted to go on a cruise. I thought this was a very bad idea. Her behaviour was volatile to put it mildly, and even if accompanied by someone she couldn't be trusted not to have a meltdown and accuse people of all sorts. Reading between the lines she'd done similar on the last cruise she'd been on three years earlier so there was no way I wanted to book one for her. In the end she had a fit of hysterics and my brother felt we ought to indulge her. Much against my better judgement we booked a cruise for her , me and my sister-in-law. As the cruise drew nearer two things happened. Mum's dementia worsened, so much so that my brother had to admit there was a real problem, and he became seriously ill which meant my sister in law couldn't go. In the end I moved mum into a care home and had a load of hassle to get the money back. She was not happy at the move and I dreaded her anger when she realised the cruise was off. Instead she seemed to have thought we'd been and said things like 'It was OK, but next time I think I'll go one my own.' I just made vague noises about having quite enjoyed it and breathed a sigh of relief.
Can your dad use his POA to contact your mum's bank to ensure they don't let her move large sums?

Thanks for your reply. Dad has agreed not to let her have anymore money and there’s nothing left in her account. It was interesting to hear about your account of booking the cruise and I’m pleased you were eventually manage to get the money back. This is all very new to me and whilst I’ve encountered people in the final stages of Alzheimer’s I’ve not experienced the beginning of the journey.
 

Veritas

Registered User
Jun 15, 2020
69
0
Thank you. I’ll certainly be taking this further if they don’t return the donation. It’s difficult though as this is one of the larger charities so basically I’m dealing with a large corporation who can afford a good legal team.
Actually, that it's a big charity means there's all the more reason to pursue it. 1. They should know - and have suficient staff to implement - what the guidance says. 2. They can afford to return a donation. 3. They won't want the bad publicity.

Write to them setting out the facts (including when you first contacted them about it, and their response) and linking them to the guidance on accepting donations. Make it clear you will report it to the Charity Commission if they don't respond quickly and return the money as requested within a reasonable timescale.
 

MrsV

Registered User
Apr 16, 2018
194
0
Northamptonshire
Hi
There isn’t anyone who could pay the deficit if this was seen as deprivation of assets. I’m actually absolutely terrified the local authority would come to me asking fir money. I’ve worked incredibly hard throughout my life and certainly won’t be handing over any of my money to pay for my parents financial mismanagement. It’s for this reason I fell like I should cut my ties and run.

Hi Firecatcher,
From what I know, no one can expect you to care for your parents, or force you to. Not all of us want to, and families aren't always sweetness and light. The LA cannot expect or force you to pay for anything. I read that on Age Concern site. Its not your fault at all, and there is no way you would be held responsible - how could you, you don't manage their finances.
If I were in your shoes I'd tell the LA the whole story, its your parents problem, not yours, its their mess.
Let the LA deal with the charity. The LA would no doubt fight tooth and nail for that money - its in their interest. I'd distance yourself from them too.
 

imthedaughter

Registered User
Apr 3, 2019
525
0
The LA could say it was deprivation of assets, but those assets have nothing to do with you e.g. your mum didn't buy you a car, so it won't be up to you to fund.

Your dad could perhaps be struck off as an attorney for not acting in your mum's best interests, but again he's not benefitting directly apart from having an easier life!

The LA may want to demand the money back, but that's up to them... is my take on it. I'd make SS and the LA aware though, that's probably acting in the best interest of your mother.
 

Ruth1974

Registered User
Dec 26, 2018
112
0
My Mum was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s earlier this year and has recently donated a vast sum of money to charity. I didn’t find out until she’d made the donation. I have POA but so does my Dad and he agreed to the donation. I’ve contacted the charity who admitted they were made aware if my Mum’s diagnosis but still went ahead and accepted the money. I’ve been in contact with them but feel I’ve hit a brick wall in trying to persuade them to return it. I believe my parents have given the charity most of their life savings.
My Mum will definitely need care as her condition progresses and if my Dad wasn’t around she wouldn’t cope now as he does all the cooking, shopping and manages the household finances. As an only child I have no intention of providing care and thankfully live a few hours drive away and work. My concern is this will be seen as deliberate deprivation of assets when the local authority make an assessment. Does anyone know if they look at bank statements etc. I am totally stressed out over this and really feel like going no contact and leaving my parents to it. In the past my relationship has always been brittle. I would welcome any advice from anyone who has been in a similar situation.
Seriously, don't worry. In theory they can rake back years but they tend to just want 3 months bank statements. Its not unusual for people with dementia to do this sort of thing. I have a friend whose mum went on a mail order spree, the house looked like Dobbies Garden Centre!
What i would do is sort something out so she cant keep spending and also maybe the charity would worry more about you potentially going to the newspapers or posting it all over facebook than they would about the legal technicalities? Mention it to them!