1. Q&A: Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA) - Thursday 27 Sept, 3-4pm

    Power of attorney (LPA) is a legal tool that gives another adult - often a carer or family member - the legal authority to make decisions on behalf of someone with dementia, if they become unable to themselves.

    Our next expert Q&A will be hosted by Flora and Helen from our Knowledge Services team. They will be answering your questions on LPA on Thursday 27 September from 3-4pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

Debts and going into residential care

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Kitty cat, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. Kitty cat

    Kitty cat New member

    Mar 29, 2018
    6
    Hi my mum is soon to be moving into residential care following 3mnths in hospital under a section 3 and will be leaving with a 117 in place!

    The local authority are agreeing to pay the full cost of a small room in the care home but the room she likes (and we are having great difficulty getting her to like anywhere) is going to cost a top up fee!

    My questions are.. if she leaves under a 117 is she still entitled to claim her state pension or will they take this?

    Mum has some debts! what can be done about these as she cannot afford to pay off her debts once she is in residential?
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,271
    On 117 aftercare she will retain her state pension, although as if she is currently receiving it will stop.

    Financially it's a lot like being in hospital.

    She can use her own funds to top-up in this situation.

    Assuming the top-up isn't more than her pension, she can start to pay off her debts.
     
  3. Kitty cat

    Kitty cat New member

    Mar 29, 2018
    6
    What if the to up is more than her pension leaving nothing to pay the debts each month?
     
  4. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,271
    Hmm - does she have any assets at all?
     
  5. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,271
    I think you would be extremely unwise to enter into an agreement which took her entire pension or even more as a top up.

    Something you should look into is if she is getting all the benefits she can receive in thus situation.
     
  6. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    16,166
    Male
    North Manchester
    Does anybody have financial LPA?

    If all the pension was used to pay off the debts how long would this take?
    If it would take a long time and the creditors are made aware of the situation they may agree to stop adding interest or even write the debt off.

    ,
     
  7. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,449
    Salford
    I agree with nitram I'd go for a debt write off. If you tell the lenders that your mum has gone into a care home and her pension is going to pay for her care costs I think most would accept that at face value, no need to tell then it's a voluntary top up unless they ask.
    As Jen has said a top up of all her pension and more, which presumably means you and/or the family are going to pay isn't the best idea. The top up might increase at a surprisingly high rate figures of 10-20% per year aren't uncommon and if the LA only agree to a small increase then the top up may go up more than that.
    I would advise you to pay the top up to the LA and let them pass it on to the home, that is the way it's supposed to work but some homes ask for the top up direct, that might leave you open to them increasing the top up by any amount.
    K
     
  8. Kitty cat

    Kitty cat New member

    Mar 29, 2018
    6
    She has no assets other than personal belongings! Since they stopped her AA she doesn’t have enough to cover everything
     
  9. Kitty cat

    Kitty cat New member

    Mar 29, 2018
    6
    We don’t have LPA we were in the process of sorting it before she had the mental crisis in December! She was only diagnosed with Alzheimer’s last year! It’s all happened very quickly! I’ve applied for an appointeeship but they won’t conduct the interviews until she leaves hospital !
     
  10. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,449
    Salford
    You could just contact the companies (preferably in writing) and tell them of her change of address, point out it is a care home as she no longer has capacity.
    Without an LPA they can't deal with you and as she no longer has capacity they can't deal with her either and see what they say.
    What do you mean by "appointeeship" ? Is that to be a Court of Protection Deputyship or is it still possible for her to make a Lasting Power of Attorney?
    The only people that seem to use the term appointee is the Department of Work and Pensions and if that's what you mean, then all that will do is allow you to deal with pensions and benefits on her behalf, it will not let you deal with the debts or any other aspects of her finance like banks.
    As nobody's said it so far (me included)...welcome to TP.
    K
     
  11. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,271
    To be fair, as an appointee kitty cat would be able to set up a new bank account for her mother for ongoing payments. Won't help with the other things though.

    I really would urge you kitty cat to reconsider what must be a pretty major top-up. What happens, if, as Kevin points out the rate goes up more than her pension?
     
  12. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    16,166
    Male
    North Manchester
  13. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    4,289
    Female
    Chester
    If all her pension is used for top up she won't have any money left for toiletries clothes and other personal expenses not covered by the home. You need to consider this in your decisions.
     
  14. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    16,166
    Male
    North Manchester
    Is there any evidence that any of the debt was initiated after formal diagnosis?
     
  15. Kitty cat

    Kitty cat New member

    Mar 29, 2018
    6
    No all of debt was initiated long before diagnosis!
     
  16. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,271
    The other thing to consider is a debt counseling service, although without an lpa or deputyship they probably won't talk to you.

    Realistically, your mother is probably judement proof if anyone sues her, but I can understand why you want to get ahead of this if you can.
     
  17. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    16,166
    Male
    North Manchester
    The debt is not yours, you have no legal authority to act financially on her behalf, however it is obvious that you should try to get to grips with it as soon as possible.

    You could see if you can organise a free face to face debt advice session
    https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/tools/debt-advice-locator
    Although you can't take any financial action the adviser should be able to tell you how to proceed.
     
  18. Kitty cat

    Kitty cat New member

    Mar 29, 2018
    6
    Not all of her pension would be used for top up! What I’m saying is that if we take into consideration the amount of top up and leaving her money for all the things she needs that the care Home doesn’t provide then there with undoubtedly be enough to cover the cost of her debts! We also have to take into consideration final bills from her council house and the cost of skips etc to discard of a lot of hoarded junk etc! It was the family home for 38 years! None of us children are in a financial position ourselves to be paying out of our own pocket! There’s only so much we can do! This whole situation with the Alzheimer’s took long enough to diagnose and the loss of capacity and hallucinations and hearing voices happened overnight!
    You never know what you’re going to get from Mum on a daily basis now whereas prior to this she was fully independent and just need help with medication and transport! The last 3or so months has been s nightmare! Social services are useless and communication from the hospital is worthy of a complaint!
     
  19. crazycatlady3

    crazycatlady3 Registered User

    Nov 19, 2017
    19
    Re: help with emptying her house costs .
    Contact either Help the Aged or Age UK , they might be able to help with costs or know a reputable company that won t cost the earth. Contact your local council too - they sometimes move up to 5 items for as little as £30 but this varies from L.A. to LA
     
  20. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    6,417
    Yorkshire
    hi @Kitty cat
    I do understand that your mum would prefer the larger room - given the financial situation, might it be worth saying to her that only the smaller room is available right now but once she is settled in the home they will be happy to move her to one of the larger ones when one becomes available - it's a bit of a fib, but gets your mum into the chosen home and gives you time to sort out the finances and be sure paying the top-up would be viable, and indeed, worth doing
     

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