Death, Deputyship and Probate

sausagedog

Registered User
Aug 22, 2019
65
I asked the solicitor to handle it all as I’m a beneficiary as well as executor, price range from £500 - to top end £1250.
To be honest it’s worth every penny after all we have been through. Plus no one can say it wasn’t done legally & properly. Make your life as easy as possible & give yourself a chance to grieve.
xx
I did the same and I’d done the ‘donkey work’ as I’d sold mums house before she died so her Estate was all quite straightforward. However, the costs were in region of £3,000. Worth every penny in my opinion and especially when I had a ‘difficult’ sibling who was also a beneficiary.
 

sausagedog

Registered User
Aug 22, 2019
65
Thanks 'Desperate' and 'Nitram'. I have one sibling and we're 50/50 to inherit. This will
happen eventually. The estate itself is very straightforward. However, once my mum went into care, I found out that my mum had paid my sister's bills, etc, since we were 18 (twins). Since 2015 my husband has paid towards my sister's rent (around £4000 up til now) - again because it turned out that she was totally reliant on my mum financially. So, with deputyship, I've covered my sister's bills. Comes under the £3000 'gifting' annually, so not been questioned by the CoP. I know what you're saying about using a solicitor 'Desperate', but because my mum's estate is so straightforward, with nothing other than bank/building society involved, I'd rather carry out probate myself if I can. I appreciate the comment about 'Make your life as easy as possible' (and God knows,don't we all know how everything is horrible about this), but the probate should be straightforward and I want to make sure my husband gets his money towards my sister's rent back. She's said she would pay him back but unfortunately I can't trust her on that. Obviously the bill paying situation was between her and my mum.
Be very careful on this point - it’s not up to you to deduct any amount from the Estate ‘owed’ to your husband .. legal advice imperative as your sister is a beneficiary - do not leave yourself ‘wide open’ to possible ‘legal action’....
 

theunknown

Registered User
Apr 17, 2015
396
Thanks 'sausagedog'. I know what you're saying and I don't think I've explained myself very well. I don't intend to take any extra money from the estate. I know I'm reliant on my sister honouring what she said, and to be fair I do think she will in this case. When I started this thread my sister and I were going through one of our regular fallings out, so I was being a bit mean about her. Like I said, I do trust her in this respect, just not in 99% of other things. There's a reason that, even though we're twins, I'm the only named executor.

As far as the bill paying is concerned, when I took documents/paperwork/admin, etc from my mum's house when the house needed to be sold I have evidence from her records that she was paying my sister's bills. This has been kept with my own documentation/admin for the OPG for the report I submitted every year in case it was questioned. Every year the bill paying has been put in the report (and described as such) as part of the 'gifting' section and never questioned. We're a very small family and aside from that there was gifting at Christmas and birthdays - the amounts that my mum had given to the immediate family when she was able to. Because I didn't have PoA I had to wait several months until I gained deputyship. It is laid out in my original court document what my responsibilities are and, with deputyship, they include 'gifting' that the person can be assumed (or proved) to have carried on doing themselves if they were still able to. My husband paid every bill in relationship to selling my mum's house, fees, bills owed, etc, and then later the first few months of care home fees. I'm very fortunate to be in the position that he was able to do that. The amount came to over £7000. He never expected to be paid back for that.

I'm sorry to everybody who's taken the time and trouble to respond on this thread, because I feel like I've come across as a horrible person who's only thinking about money. I took my financial deputyship so seriously and never thought that my mum's money was anything other than her's. There's not been one penny of my mum's money that's been used for me over the last five years, other than Christmas and birthdays. I really appreciate all your comments, and find them helpful. I posted at an emotional time for me, which was also bound up with thoughts/memories of last Christmas, which was awful for reasons nothing to do with my mum. I should either not have started this thread, or waited a couple of weeks. And now, here I am, whinging on and on again. I'll continue reading on here, and perhaps posting, but I promise I'll not use it as a place to unload every thought that's in my mind (I hope :)). All the best for 2020 to everyone who's still going through this horrible journey.
 

sausagedog

Registered User
Aug 22, 2019
65
Thanks 'sausagedog'. I know what you're saying and I don't think I've explained myself very well. I don't intend to take any extra money from the estate. I know I'm reliant on my sister honouring what she said, and to be fair I do think she will in this case. When I started this thread my sister and I were going through one of our regular fallings out, so I was being a bit mean about her. Like I said, I do trust her in this respect, just not in 99% of other things. There's a reason that, even though we're twins, I'm the only named executor.

As far as the bill paying is concerned, when I took documents/paperwork/admin, etc from my mum's house when the house needed to be sold I have evidence from her records that she was paying my sister's bills. This has been kept with my own documentation/admin for the OPG for the report I submitted every year in case it was questioned. Every year the bill paying has been put in the report (and described as such) as part of the 'gifting' section and never questioned. We're a very small family and aside from that there was gifting at Christmas and birthdays - the amounts that my mum had given to the immediate family when she was able to. Because I didn't have PoA I had to wait several months until I gained deputyship. It is laid out in my original court document what my responsibilities are and, with deputyship, they include 'gifting' that the person can be assumed (or proved) to have carried on doing themselves if they were still able to. My husband paid every bill in relationship to selling my mum's house, fees, bills owed, etc, and then later the first few months of care home fees. I'm very fortunate to be in the position that he was able to do that. The amount came to over £7000. He never expected to be paid back for that.

I'm sorry to everybody who's taken the time and trouble to respond on this thread, because I feel like I've come across as a horrible person who's only thinking about money. I took my financial deputyship so seriously and never thought that my mum's money was anything other than her's. There's not been one penny of my mum's money that's been used for me over the last five years, other than Christmas and birthdays. I really appreciate all your comments, and find them helpful. I posted at an emotional time for me, which was also bound up with thoughts/memories of last Christmas, which was awful for reasons nothing to do with my mum. I should either not have started this thread, or waited a couple of weeks. And now, here I am, whinging on and on again. I'll continue reading on here, and perhaps posting, but I promise I'll not use it as a place to unload every thought that's in my mind (I hope :)). All the best for 2020 to everyone who's still going through this horrible journey.

I don’t think for 1 minute you’ve whinged or been particularly horrid about your sibling ...you’ve obviously been taking care of things in the best way ..once office hours are back to normal, you can progress with matters - from personal experience, I was relieved to let my mums solicitor handle probate and it meant I didn’t have any ongoing worries with any of it - sometimes it really is worth it
 

theunknown

Registered User
Apr 17, 2015
396
Surely your husband should be repaid the £7000?
Hi Normaleila - he was, once I'd checked with the OPG team responsible for my mum that I could do that. This was five years ago. He'd have paid anything that needed paying (and he's covering my mum's funeral) because he's known her for over 30 years and wanted to do what was right for her, even if he couldn't get the money back. However it almost seems to be a condition of being a deputy (for the court) that you shouldn't be out of pocket by taking on financial responsibility.
 

theunknown

Registered User
Apr 17, 2015
396
I don't want to give anyone the false idea that if you've not got PoA, and you go down the route of legal deputyship through the Court of Protection, you can't claim back money paid out in relation to the person you have deputyship for (as long as it's in relation to their needs), once you have a court order.
 

sausagedog

Registered User
Aug 22, 2019
65
I don't want to give anyone the false idea that if you've not got PoA, and you go down the route of legal deputyship through the Court of Protection, you can't claim back money paid out in relation to the person you have deputyship for (as long as it's in relation to their needs), once you have a court order.

My husbands case: His sister objected to him being Deputy (no good reason given, just sheer nastiness) for their mum...(Their late father was mothers Deputy & died suddenly) He was awarded his legal costs by the court (sister not)....he continues to pay care home ‘top up’ costs and her personal allowance (has done for nearly 2 years)..,,,,finally found who CoP deputy was in Sept....who is still awaiting the court order ......husband has to ask Deputy to ‘consider’ his legal costs in due course - to say what a rigmarole the whole saga has been from the very start and husband £1000’s out of pocket (fortunately can afford it) ...he agreed for his mother to be moved to a care home nearer his sister as she requested - no thanks, no nothing ...just rudeness and aggro which has cost thousands in legal fees - horrendous
 

DesperateofDevon

Registered User
Jul 7, 2019
2,564
Oh lovely I never thought at all it was about money, my advice to you was only to protect yourself & make your life easier as you have been through so much
Sending love & hugs
Xx
 

theunknown

Registered User
Apr 17, 2015
396
Sorry to hear about you and your husband's situation 'sausagedog'. Obviously these things can become complicated in ways we don't know about if we haven't had to experience them. Families, who'd have them. I hope your husband has his kindness paid back eventually. At least my deputyship has been straightforward. My sister didn't want to take on any responsibility so left me to it. Perhaps that turned out for the best in the end. I only had myself to argue with o_O.
 

Kikki21

Registered User
Feb 27, 2016
2,248
East Midlands
Honestly it will all work out fine with the bank, plenty of ID, death certificate & original copy of the Will. You will need to organise an appointment. Now if there is money in these accounts & you & your sister are going to have 50/50 split between you, if the amount is under the bank’s probate limit then you might get asked where to put the money so it might be the best thing to also open an executor bank account so you have 1 account to deal with instead of several. Makes life easier x
 

theunknown

Registered User
Apr 17, 2015
396
Appreciate the advice Kikki, and thanks for responding. Yes, it's a 50/50 split. The estate is only bank/building society accounts and I'd have thought it would be under the probate limit, but once I have appointments I can get that info from them. I didn't know there was such a thing as a executor account, but I'm sure that'll be helpful. I paid for several copies of the death certificate when I was at the registry office, and I still have a few original copies of my deputyship document. The bank/building society involved already have certified copies of my court document from when I needed to take over my mum's accounts. That was a whole different ballgame because nobody I dealt with had heard of 'deputyship', but we got there in the end. PoA they understand.

I can't do anything more than I already have until I can make an appointment with my mum's probate solicitor who is on holiday until 6th January. Now my future admin depends on the original will (I have a copy, so I know what's in it), and it's frustrating not yet being able to move forward with this part of losing my mum. I just want all this stuff to be over.
 

Kikki21

Registered User
Feb 27, 2016
2,248
East Midlands
It sounds like your probate process will be pretty straightforward so you can do it yourself. Just research as much as you can. If the estate is worth over £5k then yes you have to go to probate. Please also bear in mind that the DWP may come calling a few months afterwards if benefits were being claimed.
 

pipd

Registered User
Apr 12, 2015
78
Leigh on Sea Essex
It sounds like your probate process will be pretty straightforward so you can do it yourself. Just research as much as you can. If the estate is worth over £5k then yes you have to go to probate. Please also bear in mind that the DWP may come calling a few months afterwards if benefits were being claimed.
I think you'll find that no probate is needed if the estate is less than 15K not 5K, best to check with your local probate office as you may not need to pay the fees required for Probate if the estate is small.
 

Kikki21

Registered User
Feb 27, 2016
2,248
East Midlands
I think you'll find that no probate is needed if the estate is less than 15K not 5K, best to check with your local probate office as you may not need to pay the fees required for Probate if the estate is small.
It’s definitely more than £5k in England as just done the probate process last year. Most banks now have a quite generous amount of money that they will transfer over to the executor of the Will into an executor bank account but you still have to do the probate forms.