Dad wants to move but mum in care home

[TelPA]

Hello all

I've read through some posts on this but I don't understand some terms and the situations are almighty different.

History
My mum has been diagnosed with dementia at the age of 62, it's Moderate to severe. She was placed in a care home after an incident.

My dad (in good health and mentally perfect) wanted to move before this happened but mums condition meant that dad was worried she'd get lost on one of her 2am walks in a new area and he's never be able to find her. so some what of a relief now in a secured dementia home.

But now we have come to realization of the horror that is the dementia care system in England, I won't go into my anger or the injustice of it all but I just want to dad to live out his days as intended and find some peace in a new house.

info:

Mum is now self funded an d we are waiting on the assessment of mums finances. She has some savings above the 23k threshold but they won't last long.

Dad is applying for guardianship of mum.
Dad has a trust in place against the estate.
The home is paid for and jointly owned by mum and dad

My dad is under the impression he legally cannot move. So I've told him to seek advice from his solicitor as that sounds wrong.

What I think he's been told is he won't be able to move with taking a huge financial hit.

Question:
1. Can dad sell the home once he has guardianship, I assume there might be some kind of deputy needed, but it's possible right?
2. If he can sell the house will SS take 50% towards mums care home fees or can he use some of that to buy a new house?
3. His house is valuable enough that if he sold he could get a smaller place elsewhere. sooo if he loses 50% to mum care home fees and buys a new house in his own name solely, can they come after 50% of that house? note he has a trust setup against his estate.

4. Side question can SS run up a debt against the house? so lets say mums savings are depleted so assume the state then pays for the care. but will they keep a log of that? and when dad passes away (a long time from now hopefully) will they try and take all that run up debt?

Thanks for your help, dads in a really bad place mentally and I need to give him something to live for

 

[marionq]

While your Dad is in his home SS can not touch the value of it. If he wants to move but a new house would be eg 75% of the value then your Mum would own 25% of the new house and would have the other 25% in cash towards her costs.

 

[TelPA]

While your Dad is in his home SS can not touch the value of it. If he wants to move but a new house would be eg 75% of the value then your Mum would own 25% of the new house and would have the other 25% in cash towards her costs.

Thank you! That's such a relief to hear. do you know where I can find that on some government website? Or that from personal experience?

 

[MartinWL]

Thank you! That's such a relief to hear. do you know where I can find that on some government website? Or that from personal experience?

This is such an important decision that I would strongly advise getting expert legal advice before proceeding.

 

[Shedrech]

hello @TelPA
a warm welcome to DTP

you say your dad is applying for guardianship, is that because he is in Scotland ... or is he in the UK and applying to become her Deputy for finance and property ?

if the latter, I hope he included the sale of the property in the application, or he will have to make a separate application after he is appointed ... he won't be able to manage his wife's finances until the Deputyship is in place, is this why he thinks he can't legally move?

Joint property ownership: Selling when an owner has lost mental capacity - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

once he is her Deputy, your dad will be able to sell the house to downsize ... though he will then either have to split the proceeds of the sale and buy a property using only his share, so in his name only and no asset of his wife's, with his wife's share of the proceeds going into her account and available to pay her care fees ..... or use some of his wife's share and have the property in joint names, sharing the remains of the proceeds ... the shared new property will be disregarded in any financial assessment of your mum's finances to pay for her care, as long as your dad lives there ... the monies from your mum's share of the proceeds of the sale will be part of the assessment as they will be her asset, and will be used to fund her care fees

if your dad remains in the current property, it is disregarded in any financial assessment re her care fees as long as he lives there .... should he die whilst still living in the property, his instructions as per his will come into effect for his share and your mum's share is then taken into account from that date as her asset re funding her care ... but no, the LA have no authority/right to seek 'back' payment of her fees

to chat this over with someone, maybe call the Support Line as they have a lot of knowledge of financial issues
Dementia Connect support line | Alzheimer's Society

 

[silkiest]

Hi @TelPA when we were doing our wills a couple of years ago I was told that if the property was in trust then the local authority would not be able to take it if the trust was done before any thoughts of dementia and the need for care homes. We were told that the local authority cannot insist on the sale of a house in a trust as half a house is in effect worth nothing.
If the trust was set up after a diagnosis of dementia or any other deteriorating long term condition we were told that the local authority could take it to court and successfully claim 'deprivation of assets' and get the money, but again only after your dad no longer needs the house through either death or residential care for himself. . Of course things may have changed since then. I would advise your dad to talk to the person who set up the trust and what restrictions there are.

 

[canary]

We were told that the local authority cannot insist on the sale of a house in a trust as half a house is in effect worth nothing.

This certainly used to be the case, but I believe that it has changed, although I am unsure about the current position.