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Credit card new security - pin number needed after every 5 transactions

Discussion in 'Welcome and how to use Dementia Talking Point' started by rosyposy@123, Sep 23, 2019.

  1. rosyposy@123

    rosyposy@123 New member

    Mar 22, 2019
    1
    I have never heard of this new security feature - though for people who are not partially sighted or don't have dementia it is a great idea! My mum, unfortunately, had appalling eyesight ( macular degeneration) and dementia. Her lifeline every day is to walk to Marks and Spencers - they are now going to make this very difficult for her - despite it being a small shop where they know her very well. I am not comfortable giving her carer the pin number.
    Has anyone else come up with this problem and is there an answer?

    Thanks!
     
  2. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    5,180
    Female
    Chester
    I know that my friend and my daughter both had to enter a pin the other day, and they were both surprised.

    With daughter she was trying to use apple pay where the whole point is your phone recognises your thumb (apparently) and there is a much higher limit.

    I've not been asked yet but I probably do enough mix of high and low value transactions that I use PIN often enough.
     
  3. Sarasa

    Sarasa Registered User

    Apr 13, 2018
    493
    This was mentioned to me in Marks and Spencer the other day as I had to enter my PIN. It sounds like a good security feature but it is going to be tough for people like your mum @rosyposy@123 . My mum has macular degeneration too, and going to Marks for a coffee and a scone was her routine every day when she was at home. Fortunately she did mostly remember her PIN, and never really got the hang of contactless anyway.
     
  4. Sirena

    Sirena Registered User

    Feb 27, 2018
    1,651
    Female
    I've never used contactless myself so it makes no difference to me!

    My mother never used contactless either and nor did she remember her PIN in the last year or so she lived at home. So she went to the bank once a week with her carer and withdrew cash (over the counter, not from a cash machine) to pay for her shopping. I agreed the amount/frequency with the care agency, and could see from her online statements that it worked as intended. If she needed to go to the hairdresser/optician/vet etc, again the care agency would let me know and she withdrew cash to pay for it. It was never a problem at all.
     
  5. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,035
    Male
    North Manchester
    You could use a prepaid card which you could monitor and load as necessary
    https://www.money.co.uk/prepaid-cards.htm

    They all have different charges, DYOR on which is most suitable.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    It's more likely a change in analysis of use contactless use than a hard 5 uses max.
    As well as analysis by the issuer merchants can program in random checks, maybe M&S have done this.
    Neither way worries me as I have never made a contactless transaction and would expect the first use to be challenged.
     
  6. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,714
    Female
    London
    I don't use my credit cards in shops, only for online shopping where PIN is not asked for. But surely you need a PIN for a debit card anyway? I use contactless but it's only for up to £30.
     
  7. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,035
    Male
    North Manchester
    #7 nitram, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
    I have 2 VISA debit cards, both contactless although I have never used the facility.

    If a card has this icon it is contactless.
    download.png
     
  8. kindred

    kindred Registered User

    Apr 8, 2018
    2,199
    I think you will find that as a result of an EU directive to prevent fraud, there is to be added a second layer of security checking around purchases.
    This has been postponed as compulsory until next year, I think, but some retailers are gearing up for this. AMazon for example has been asking customers for their mobile because it may be that purchases will be verified by a call via mobile.
    Waitrose are already applying this by having random put your card into the machine days rather than contactless. I gather that last month a coach load of elderly people from local residential home had to go home without their shopping as they had all forgotten their PIN numbers. KIndred.
     
  9. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,035
    Male
    North Manchester
    #9 nitram, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
    Just been researching.
    These rules should have come into force on 14/09/19

    [​IMG]
    The implementation date has been put back, some traders are practising.

    The proposed next step, already being trialled, is to have fingerprint recognition on the cards.
    download.jpg
     
  10. Spamar

    Spamar Registered User

    Oct 5, 2013
    6,973
    Suffolk
    Barclays are bringing it in.
     
  11. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,714
    Female
    London
    You can't go contactless forever anyway, whichever card you use. At some point the system will ask for the PIN as a security measure, so don't rely on never needing it!
     
  12. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    5,180
    Female
    Chester
    Surely this negates the benefit of contactless (which works the same for debit or credit cards AFIK)

    I use contactless a lot and the shops I use it in prefer it to cash.

    My daughter's generation don't carry cash - and don't even use a card but their phones, thumb has to be held to phone whilst transaction is taking place for applepay.

    I have started carrying a debit card when cycling as many cafes now prefer contactless. Saves having to have a large float of change. Banks charge small businesses more for cash takings than card takings in many instances as well.

    I had read about it happening for on line transactions, which can be large (on line weekly shop is £100 ) and OH was sent a card reader by credit card co - but I wasn't - I am main account holder.
     
  13. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,035
    Male
    North Manchester
    Not when fingerprint recognition is brought in.

    Reading around the new legislation only applies to bank cards, it does not cover Apple pay etc.

    The catch phrase for chip and PIN was ' mental and elemental' , contactless has removed the 'mental'
     
  14. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,035
    Male
    North Manchester
    I was wondering how the card is initially loaded with fingerprint data.
    Does not look as if it's sorted yet.

    The major stumbling block for the widespread adoption of the card is likely to be how the bank initially obtains the customer’s fingerprint. NatWest said customers in the trial would have to visit their local branch so that the bank could copy their fingerprint, but it is working on ways to capture the data remotely.


    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/11/natwest-trials-fingerprint-debit-cards-to-remove-30-limit
     
  15. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    5,180
    Female
    Chester
    Maybe dau's apple pay not working was just a blip - but card then didn't work on contactless either so she had to use pin
     
  16. Bod

    Bod Registered User

    Aug 30, 2013
    1,164
    Thinking....
    Contactless card is stolen. Used many times, someone has to pay. Either you or the Bank.
    Having to enter PIN every fifth transaction, limits the fraud liability, to a small amount. (Currently 4 X £30)
    Yes, there will be problems, till the system is fully settled in, when everybody is used to it.
    Maybe Prepaid cards will be the way around failure to remember PIN's, that would limit losses to just the amount on the card, which would be the customers loss not the Banks.

    Bod
     
  17. LadyA

    LadyA Registered User

    Oct 19, 2009
    13,519
    Ireland
    It's been the way here for several years. You can use contactless for, I think, three transactions, but then you need to use your pin.
     
  18. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,714
    Female
    London
    #18 Beate, Sep 24, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
    Exactly that. You have to have some security, or a fraudster can empty your bank account £30 at a time. But as I said, I think something like that exists already as I can certainly remember being prompted for my PIN once when I just wanted to swipe.
     
  19. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,035
    Male
    North Manchester
    Unattended transactions, parking, transport,..., are not included in count, there's no keypad.

    A thief can ride around and park a car until you report the card stolen or the issuer's system pick up an unusual pattern of usage and blocks the card.
     

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