Court Order wording confusion

[123jump]

Hi,
We have just had notification that we have been appointed deputies for mum.

We also asked for trustee status to sell jointly owned house. The order states:

"The application in relation the the appointment of trustees to facilitate the sale of (mum's) property is stood over with liberty to restore by submission of a form COP9 and COP24 detailing (Mum's) living arrangements, including:

A) an explanation of her current living arrangements
B) whether those arrangements include a deprivation of her liberty for which authorisation is required
C) if they do, whether there is a Standard Authorization in place

It goes on for a few more points.

Does this mean we have to send the forms back addressing those points, or are we able to proceed with selling the house?

Any help would be appreciated

 

[nitram]

It means that no decision will be made until the forms have been completed and summitted to the Court for consideration.

I assume you have not already submitted the forms addressing the listed points.

 

[123jump]

Many thanks for your reply. That's what we thought. We filled in all the required forms initially, but I guess they want more.... I'll go and try to unpick what a standard authorisation is!!

Thanks again- the process seems never ending

 

[nitram]

@123jump
I posted this link on another thread, you may find it helpful

Selling a property when you are deputy or attorney

As professionals specialising in Court of Protection work we often hear from clients that they have been told by social services that they have to sell their parents’ home to pay their care fees. This is often a very stressful time for families and understanding what needs to be done and why can...

www.wrigleys.co.uk

 

[Lemondrizzle]

I googled "standard authorisation for dols"and there are lots of sites explaining this. From my quick look it appears the application can be standard or urgent.

 

[123jump]

Thanks for the advice and info. So mum is in a nursing following a stroke. No mobility/ cognition/ fed through tube. So would the council be the the body to approach to check 'deprevation of liberty' status? Her social worker? Not something I'd heard of before....

 

[Louise7]

@123jump The care home will know if there is a deprivation of liberty (dols) in place or not - it's arranged via the council/social services but if there's one in place the home will have been provided with the paperwork. For info, this factsheet explains the dols process: https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/legal-financial/deprivation-liberty-safeguards-dols

 

[123jump]

Thanks to everyone for being so helpful ? I will get in touch with the care home and see if they can provide the answers needed. Feel much more confident now

 

[MartinWL]

A deprivation of liberty safeguards order would seem to be superfluous in the case of someone who is physically incapable of wandering off. I think you would have been told if one were in place but best to check.

 

[nitram]

A deprivation of liberty safeguards order would seem to be superfluous in the case of someone who is physically incapable of wandering off.

A DOLs may also be required for covert medication or tube feeding.
The OP's mum is in a nursing home following a stroke so it could well be that a DOLs application is in the currently very slow system.

 

[Lemondrizzle]

A deprivation of liberty safeguards order would seem to be superfluous in the case of someone who is physically incapable of wandering off. I think you would have been told if one were in place but best to check.

You would think so wouldn't you as would I but my aunt was moved from hospital to a care home, bed bound and barely awake. Yet a DOLS was applied for although I believe she has passed away before it was sorted as I was given no more information than they would have to apply for it. The e-mail reads "I have also been contacted by the Deprivation of Liberty and Safeguarding team for us to apply for a DOLS as your aunt lacks mental capacity so care could be done in her best interest. We will therefore be doing this next week." I will say though that they did contact me about proposed treatments to discuss if I had any issues with them which may have been because they hadn't obtained it. I guess from their point of view we could have attempted to remove her against medical advice which might have justified the DOLS process being commenced.

 

[123jump]

I have contacted the council who have a dols dept. For those who have previously applied for Trustee, is this a standard request from COP?

 

[nitram]

For those who have previously applied for Trustee, is this a standard request from COP?

Don't know.
However if the Court is trying to establish whether or not she might need the house in the future the presence of a DOLS might make this unlikely as DOLS does not apply in a domestic situation, a court order would be needed.
Is there a DOLS ?
Is there an application in progress?

 

[123jump]

Thanks all. Dols has never been mentioned, so assume not in place. I have emailed NH (manager hard to get hold of) and council to check. Guess we will need a dols to get trustee status, as on the COP info required, it says.... (If no Dols)... "State the name of the supervisory body and the anticipated timescale for an application for authorisation"

They also want to know whether a "best interests decision was taken that mum would be unable to return to her property"

 

[nitram]

The care home has to apply for the DOLS because they will be the people imposing the deprivation.
If they have not started the process explain that you need a DOLS in place to be able to sell the house to provide funds to pay for care.

 

[123jump]

Thanks Nitram, that seems good advice.

Council confirmed no Dols has been applied for.

Will see how NH respond, then push them to make Dols application

 

[MartinWL]

Thanks Nitram, that seems good advice.

Council confirmed no Dols has been applied for.

Will see how NH respond, then push them to make Dols application

Maybe I have misunderstood here but why do you want a DOLS order to be made? This is to permit the card home to prevent her from leaving. Is that likely?

 

[123jump]

Because the court or protection are (I think) asking for one before they will make us trustees....

 

[Louise7]

@123jump Based on your first post the COP are merely asking if there is a Dols in place, not specifying that one is required. As the COP has also asked "if a 'best interests' decision was made that your mum would be unable to return to her property" it appears that they are merely satisfying themselves that the decision was made on a legal basis (either Dols or 'best interests', as per the mental capacity act). In the absence of LPA/Deputy presumably there was a 'best interests' decision made? If so, provide the COP with details. The attached factsheet explains the ‘best interest’ process, including decisions regarding to deciding where someone should live. If it was a doctor or social worker who made the decision let the COP know:

• Complicated decisions about where the person will live, their care or treatment – if the person has an attorney or deputy for health and welfare, they can make the decision. If not, a professional such as a social worker or doctor will make the decision.

Making decisions for a person with dementia who lacks mental capacity

If a person with dementia lacks mental capacity to make a decision, the decision may have to be made for them. This decision should always be made in the person's best interests.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

 

[123jump]

Thanks Louise- that information about 'Best Interests' is really helpful. So presumably her social worker would know if there was a 'best interests' decision? It's made more complicated by the fact that Dad was dealing with all the 'admin' initially, so he may well have been informed. However, he is now at End of lIfe with Vascular Dementia (which came on severely and suddenly) so I may not be aware of all the decisions made. With reference to the COP and Dols, I should have added the further points in the COP letter in my opening post. Here are the COP requirements in full.

A) an explanation of her current living arrangements
B) whether those arrangements include a deprivation of her liberty for which authorisation is required
C) if they do, whether there is a Standard Authorization in place
D) if there is not, the name of the relevant supervisory body, and the anticiplated timescale for an application of authorisation
E) Whether a best interests decision was taken that (mum) would be unable to return to live in her property

Thanks again to everyone who has replied- this forum is so useful and supportive when you feel like giving up!