1. eiggam

    eiggam Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    Hi to all,
    Has anyone disagreed with the decision of Court of Pro and won their arguement.
    I am thinking of fighting the decision and ask for a Court Hearing. The person the
    Court's chose is not in my opinion capable of giving the Care my Mother should have.
    Thanks for any info;
  2. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    Hi Maggie, I`m sorry I haven`t had any experience with the type of dispute you refer to, but there might be someone on the Forum who has, and who may be more helpful.

    Do you think the CAB might be able to answer your queries? It would be worth giving them a try, as I believe with legal issues, they can arrange legal advice for you.
  3. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    Wigan, Lancs

    The receiver appointed by the Court is only authorised to deal with financial affairs and not personal care, so if you are thinking of challenging the decision you need to concentrate on this aspect.

    By all means challenge, but legal aid is not available. The hearings tend to be less formal than usual court hearings, and so armed with the right advice you may feel able to take them on yourself.
  4. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    Hi Maggie. You would have to prove that the person appointed was not suitable/fit. It is not enough just to challenge.

    I speak from experience. Lionel's children challenged the decision for me to hold Lionel's EPA..As they had nothing to back this up, and all Lionel's friends wrote to the Court of Protection on his behalf, supporting me, ultimately it was resolved in my favour.

    To this day his son has never spoken to his dad, and the daughter only has spasmodic contact. I think that says it all.

    However if you really have grounds and they can be proved, maybe you should challenge.
  5. forgetmenot

    forgetmenot Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    court of protectiom

    I would fight the court of protection if I were you. You know what is best for your mother. I had to fight, but not as far as the court of protection, as next of kin as I am not the oldest but my brother does not care and has been out of touch with the family for many years. Good luck and keep us informed on how you get on. Your mother cannot do the fighting so it's down to you


    from forgetmenot
  6. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    I had thought that the practice of counting the oldest as the next of kin was antiquated and no longer applied. However, someone told me that they thought it still counted and I did find something on the internet that backed this up, although I can't remember what/where. Does anyone know if there is anything in this? :confused:
  7. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    Could you be possibly be talking abut the Mental Health Act? According to that, I'm not my mother's next of kin, because I live abroad! That has a defined pecking order.
  8. eiggam

    eiggam Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    Hi to all,
    It feels good having the feedback, I’ll try to keep this brief.
    My Mums Dr. Declared Mum had dementia in Oct 2001, in Feb 2003 my Mum signed the document and appointed this person epa.

    The burden of proof is on me but, how can you get to Bank Statements which would prove my Mums savings have all but disappeared, when the Law is against me having that proof.
    Mums home neglected, severally neglected, not insured, and the person with the epa does not care to take care of Mums home, refuses to rent the home even to Mums grand-child. For 4 years mums home sits empty and neglected, because all this epa wants is to sell, and share out the proceeds.

    BUT....It is not the money so much as the Care this epa blocks from any direction. This epa wrote to Court of Pro. Mum does not need material things as she has Alzheimer.
    When ever I try to give extra comfort this epa will block it, incase it could cost money.
    An alleged abuse case where my Mum accused a staff member of strangulation, plus an elderly person died suspiciously around this time. That person was fired I got a Solicitor to act for my Mum. This epa refuse to pay, said it wasn’t needed.
    One last incident, after too many times finding my Mum in conditions inappropriate I wrote a formal complaint, which was justified, and the Health Board took great care to correct all the wrongs things at this Home.

    Now, I have found another Home recommended by the Health Board the move was to take place the end of this month, and the Courts decisions came in 4 days ago, keeping this epa. I am exhausted from fighting to give Mum what she so deserves, this 4 years has been an uphill climb when this epa blocks all I try to do when it comes to a little extra money which Mum has plenty of. I would like to fight the Courts decision, but I just can’t see what else I have to do to ‘Prove’ this epa incapable.

    Even though an epa only has control over finances, you will be surprised how much the Health Board honors anything this epa says, she has the last word on any thing, and I have to watch Mum go without.

    Thank you for being able to share this with people who listen.

    P.s. very interested to read Next-of-kin. on a visit, I asked to see my Mums chart at the Home where everything is written down concerning Mum. I do this often. On this day I was told, I will have to ask the Supervisor, I had a registered Nurse with me at the time to evaluate Mum for this new Home. The supervisor came into Mums room asked who this person was who with me, a friend I said, Then I was told, ‘Only the next-of-kin can read your Mums notes’ I insisted I was my Mother’s daughter, they just repeated to me, ;Only the next-of -kin is allowed to read the your Mums notes, and I’m sorry you cannot. BUT... I bet you this epa would be allowed, but this epa stated in her letter to Court of Pro. She prefers to leave Mums care to the ‘Professional’ The complaint I made and my Sister made was sent to Court of Pro.
  9. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    Wigan, Lancs
    Hi Maggie,

    I understand the situation better now... I think.

    Your mum did an EPA some time ago, after being diagnosed, you were served with notice when the EPA was registered and the Court of Protection upheld the appointment of the attorney. Is that right?

    If so the next appeal would be to the Court. On what grounds did you object? The possible grounds include:-
    1. The EPA is not valid (as well as the paperwork being incomplete, this would include that your Mum was not mentally capable of understanding the EPA)

    2. Fraud or undue pressure was put on your Mum to sign the EPA

    3. The attorney is unsuitable. This last ground is pretty wide, and I presume that this is the ground that you went under. I don't think disagreeing with financial decisions would be sufficient to remove the attorney, but allegations of using your Mum's money for things other than your Mum's benefit should have been considered.

    I presume that the attorney is a beneficiary under your mum's will? Even so once the house is sold the money is still your mum's and cannot be 'shared out'.

    On the question of next of kin and disclosure of information, it appears that one of the exceptions to the general rule that a doctor cannot disclose information without the patient's consent, is 'to a close relative or another third party in the best interests of the patient.' No mention of next of kin.

    Another exception is 'in relation to the clinical management of the patient' i.e. to other health professionals, which may include the registered nurse if she was there to formally assess your mum.

    It seems that access to medical records may be obtained 'where the patient is incapable of manging their own affairs, by any person appointed by a court to manage those affairs'. This does not include an Attorney under a registered EPA.

    Hope this helps.
  10. eiggam

    eiggam Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    Hi Sue,

    Yes, the EPA was written quite some time after the diagnoses, but, the EPA did not register with the Court of Protection. It was not until we, my Sister and I forced this issue for registering, so the Court would hear our objections.

    The objections were Fraud, EPA not valid,, and incapable (unsuitable).
    No consideration was given to our allegations.
    No beneficiary in my Mums Will.

    About the registered Nurse, I did not inform the Care Home of this assessment, the Nurse told me it isn’t necessary to tell the Care Home. Maybe if I told them, “The Nurse needs to see Mums medication,” they may have allowed it, But... she is not Next-of-kin.

    Are you saying that The Court of Protection can appoint a person to look after the health of someone who is not capable of making those decisions them selves, even though that person has an EPA for financial matters. Then, The Court of Protection will register that person for Health issues only?
    Thank you for your information,
  11. eiggam

    eiggam Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    Court of so-called-Protection

    Hi Nada,

    I think I will call the Court of Pro. because I have a good relationship with the gentleman who has handled all the papers.

    I will let everyone know what The Court of Pro. say's about appointing a person separate from the EPA for Health decisions only.

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