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council have lost my dads differed payment papers.

SHACKLADY

Registered User
Jul 10, 2012
4
My father passed away this week. I didn't have any power of attorney or deputyship, although he did sign the deffered payment papers when he was of sound mind the council have lost the papers relating to his care. I just before his passing were chasing me for the deeds to his home. I am totally lost and don't know who to turn too. Has anyone had this happen to them if so I would be so grateful for any advice on what to do.
 
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Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,044
Staffs
My father passed away this week. I didn't have any power of attorney or deputyship, although he did sign the deffered payment papers when he was of sound mind the council have lost the papers relating to his care. I just before his passing were chasing me for the deeds to his home. I am totally lost and don't know who to turn too. Has anyone had this happen to them if so I would be so grateful for any advice on what to do.
Sorry about the passing of your Father.

Whether you has PoA is largely irrelevant now and whoever is executer will have to deal with this. If it is you then I would imagine the LA will send a bill for his time in care. Is there any reason this cannot be paid from your Fathers estate?
 
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SHACKLADY

Registered User
Jul 10, 2012
4
Sorry about the passing of your Father.

Whether you has PoA is largely irrelevant now and whoever is executer will have to deal with this. If it is you then I would imagine the LA will send a bill for his time in care. Is there any reason this cannot be paid from your Fathers estate?
Thank you so much for your quick response. I am the executor now of the will. He has a home but it is over 200 miles away and in a poor state of repair. Their is no reason why he cannot pay after the sale of the house I was wondering if the council losing the paperwork has any implications regarding his estate and the speed that they would want the bill paying. Apologies I am not used to this.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
19,739
North Manchester
The first thing to do is to obtain probate
https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/overview
this gives you as executor the power to handle your father's affairs, banks will usually release funds to pay for funeral expenses without probate.

Obtaining probate for a simple estate is not too difficult if you are able to work methodically through the paperwork. If you decide to get professional help make sure you understand what the fees will be before you agree anything.

It's up to the council to provide an invoice, as executor you can ask them for it, it will be needed for the probate application. The money due should be paid within 90 days of death during which time the council will still charge interest on the debt. If not paid after 90 days the council can allow extra time or make a court application for payment, there is little point in them applying to the court if all the funds are tied up in the house.
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,044
Staffs
Their is no reason why he cannot pay after the sale of the house I was wondering if the council losing the paperwork has any implications regarding his estate and the speed that they would want the bill paying. Apologies I am not used to this.
Nothing to apologise for at all.:)

The LA are no position to demand anything if it is them that have lost the paperwork and I would think be extremely grateful if you do not contest the Deferred Payment Agreement as never having existed at all.

I would imagine that the DPA was made some time ago and therefore under the "old" system where no interest or charges are made. In April The New Care Act came into force and there is new guidance on how the Local Authority can go about recovering any debt. If you have put the property on the market or are otherwise trying to sell it they should not be taking any court action except as a last resort. They are now obliged to actively work with you to arrange a settlement.

Obviously not knowing how much is involved the DPA can also be paid off by other means if you wish not to sell the property at this time. That can be from a third person or from other capital your Father may have had.

Hope that helps.:)
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,044
Staffs
The money due should be paid within 90 days of death during which time the council will still charge interest on the debt.
Only if the DPA was made under the The New Care Act and any interest payments are clearly outlined otherwise the old agreement under CRAG is still valid and remains interest free for the duration.

I am in the process of entering into a DPA for my Mom and there is no interest or charges payable for its duration.
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
Only if the DPA was made under the The New Care Act and any interest payments are clearly outlined otherwise the old agreement under CRAG is still valid and remains interest free for the duration.

I am in the process of entering into a DPA for my Mom and there is no interest or charges payable for its duration.
Well until 52 days have past after the death of the owner.
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
No, you're right - it's 56. However, since the 56 days is enshrined in the Health and Social care Act 2001 and since it's quite likely that there is a charge registered on the property (although if the LA has lost the original agreement, who knows if they followed through with this) I think the LA will be able to enforce it. Mind you, I wouldn't immediately roll over and pay under these circumstances.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
19,739
North Manchester
"...it's quite likely that there is a charge registered on the property..."

Easily checked for £3, click >>>HERE<<< to find out.

If no charge the LA are on a very sticky legal wicket!
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,044
Staffs
No, you're right - it's 56. However, since the 56 days is enshrined in the Health and Social care Act 2001 and since it's quite likely that there is a charge registered on the property (although if the LA has lost the original agreement, who knows if they followed through with this) I think the LA will be able to enforce it. Mind you, I wouldn't immediately roll over and pay under these circumstances.
Isn't the HSCA 2001 one of the acts that was repealed in April?

I too would not immediately "roll over" and why I think any interest is not enforceable hence my challenge to Nitram's post. The debt, if challenged (I would be tempted:)), would need a court to decide but I would say it is payable.
 

SHACKLADY

Registered User
Jul 10, 2012
4
Thank you

Thank you for everyone who has, and will contribute to my post although my dad passed this week you have lifted my spirits. I will firstly see if the LA put a charge on the property.
Many thanks
Gary
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
Isn't the HSCA 2001 one of the acts that was repealed in April?

I too would not immediately "roll over" and why I think any interest is not enforceable hence my challenge to Nitram's post. The debt, if challenged (I would be tempted:)), would need a court to decide but I would say it is payable.
I don't think repealing an act would make agreements entered into under it null and void.
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,044
Staffs
I don't think repealing an act would make agreements entered into under it null and void.
Certainly not and do not think I said that.

The New Care Act certainly states the "older" DPA's stay as agreed although there is now clearer guidance on recovery of debts.