Costs associated with EPA

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Grandaughter 1, Jan 27, 2007.

  1. Grandaughter 1

    Grandaughter 1 Registered User

    Jan 17, 2006
    141
    Hampshire
    My Mum and Uncle have got EPA for my Grandad as he is now in a home. We had this drawn up through the solicitors and Nan thought it would fairer if both Grandad's children were registered.

    They've both had letters saying that the cost will be £120 to register the EPA plus the solicitors fee of £250 for drawing all the papers up etc.

    Does this mean that they have to pay this each so effectively it will cost £740???

    We're also wondering if we really need to go through this expense as the only assets my Grandad has are cash in the bank, and it is all in joint acounts with my Nan.
     
  2. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Hi Granddaughter

    I think this will be the total cost, so your Mum & uncle would pay £185 each.

    The only value in your circumstances would be if anything happened to your Nan while your Grandad is still alive. Your Mum and uncle would then be able to look after their affairs. It would be particularly important if they own their own house, as your Mum and uncle would have to sell it.

    I have EPA for my husband, but his eldest son is also named, just in case. It's a good safeguard.
     
  3. Michael E

    Michael E Registered User

    Apr 14, 2005
    619
    Male
    Ronda Spain
    It is the work of about 10 minutes to fill in the forms for registration and the system is set up for ordinary people - without solicitors to to do all this work themselves.. It is very very easy and the help booklets and the very friendly help line is designed to let you do it yourself.

    Your solicitor is close to wicked to require £250 for a few minutes work on forms designed for the layperson to complete. Ask him to give you the POA back and if you really think it is worth registering do it yourself. Call the help line - really nice people - I successfully registered Monique's a month ago. The people on the help line are wonderful. Cost of registration is £120.. No matter how many attorneys.

    unless there is serious money involved or property to eventually be disposed of and you have joint accounts operating, there is probably not much point in registering - that's opinion and doubtless others will post what they think.


    EPA registration forms from Guardianship website
     
  4. Grandaughter 1

    Grandaughter 1 Registered User

    Jan 17, 2006
    141
    Hampshire
    It was my Nan who insisted on using a solicitor as she get's worried about these things being done properly. I did say to the family about doing it ourselves but Nan was against it.

    I think we have to pay the £250 regardless now as the paperwork etc has all been drawn up so I presume we'd have to pay for the time used. We just need to actually get the EPA registered I think.

    It's just confusing whether we actually need to get it registered now but I suppose it's best to play safe.
     
  5. kindheart

    kindheart Registered User

    Jan 18, 2007
    39
    Dear Grandaughter,

    The solicitor and court costs are not paid by the attorney's ie your mum and uncle but it is paid for from you nan's esate ie a cheque issued from you nan's account and signed by the attorney's.

    does this help?
     
  6. Grandaughter 1

    Grandaughter 1 Registered User

    Jan 17, 2006
    141
    Hampshire
    The letter from the solicitor clearly states that my Mum and Uncle are responsible for paying the solicitors costs and the registering of the EPA. It states that payment will not be accepted from a 3rd party. My Nan thinks that's ridiculous so she is going to give my Mum and Uncle the cash to put in their accounts so they then can write a cheque!!!! What a pallava (sp)!!!
     
  7. Lucille

    Lucille Registered User

    Sep 10, 2005
    542
    Hi grandaughter 1

    I've been on the brink of registering an EPA for ... mmmm about 12 months now! I downloaded the forms from the PGO website. The unregistered document has been used with banks and building socs with no problem and no cost to mum.

    I am (she says) on the brink of registering it. I am going to apply for a waiver of fees as my mum has less than the assets needed for payment. Can't remember what it is off the top of my head but it's on the guidelines on the website. So, hopefully when I do pluck up the courage to do the deed, there won't be any cost to my mother.

    Good luck with it, from Lucille the ditherer when it comes to registering the EPA!! :)
     
  8. Michael E

    Michael E Registered User

    Apr 14, 2005
    619
    Male
    Ronda Spain

    never forget that solicitors are just people running a small business. A business that creates nothing, constructs nothing and makes no contribution to making the world a better place... Not very valuable people. There are greedy solicitors, stupid solicitors, ignorant solicitors and a few who try to do their best for their clients but have to make a living...

    Not sure if yours is stupid, greedy or just plain insensitive......
     
  9. Grandaughter 1

    Grandaughter 1 Registered User

    Jan 17, 2006
    141
    Hampshire
    Michael, you've got a fantastic way with words!:) I love it!
     
  10. Clive

    Clive Registered User

    Nov 7, 2004
    716
    EPA Cost

    I got mum's EPA done by a solicitor. I rang round and found a solicitor in a poor part of town who charged £18 about 5 years ago. It was just like a shop. We stood at a shop counter and gave our information. The EPA was ready 4 hours later. We stood at the counter and signed it. Most important we got three certified copies free of charge !

    Last year I registered it. Simple sent it off to the address I got from the internet with a cheque after informing mum's other relations.

    The whole thing is a bit of a con, but my advice is to get an EPA as soon as possible. I found it quite easy to do with mum as we did it just after dad died and, suffering from slight Alzheimers, she thought it was a good idea that I should have the means of paying all her bills etc.
     
  11. Charlie

    Charlie Registered User

    Apr 1, 2003
    161
    This thread flags a lot of interesting issues.
    What confuses me is that some people state that a non registered EPA can be used for informing banks etc so financial affairs can be dealt with? I thought an unregistered EPA could not be used for anything?

    If that is the case at what point should a EPA be registered (in people opinion and experience)?
     
  12. Brucie

    Brucie Registered User

    Jan 31, 2004
    12,413
    near London
    I used Jan's unregistered EPA to open and close accounts for her, and to withdraw money for her.

    Once her condition progressed so that there was no possibility of her understanding, well anything, really - that is when I registered the EPA.

    Key point was I could not have sold the house last year without the EPA being registered, and a trustee appointed to look after her interests. As attorney, I was not allowed to do that.
     
  13. Jazzy

    Jazzy Registered User

    Jun 3, 2006
    34
    Derbyshire
    If it's any help, I registered the EPOA as soon as it was obvious that my mother wasn't going to live at home again and I needed to sell the her home. She was also getting confused and is registered blind and profoundly deaf. I think it's always a combination of circumstances that make it the right moment to register.

    Jazzy
     
  14. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    I think some of the confusion around this issue arises because, while there is a "standard form" epa, it is also possible to insert various restrictions within it. It is perfectly possible to have an EPA that comes into force immediately it has been signed by all parties, even though it hasn't yet been resigistered, while many will require the donor to have lost mental capacity before it comes into force. I think the SOP of solicitors is to draw up the latter, although my mother's solicitor did give us the option of drawing up the former. I would imagine that the former would be easier to use "unregistered" as there would be no issue about defining mental incapacity, and in fact would work more like an ordinary power of attorney.

    Having said that, of course, it really comes down to the specific financial institution you are dealing with. One of the things I did on my recent trip was try to sort out banking and saving options for my mother. The most difficult thing, (and I haven't yet found a solution to it) is proving my mother's identity in order to open new accounts. Not all 89 year olds have a full current driving license or a current passport! The EPA site has a list of possible documents to do this, but I didn't have it with me at the time, and of course, they are suggestions - the banks do not have to accept them, although I would imagine that somewhere in the bowels of the organisations there is someone who can authorise this. I did find one company who specifically said they would not accept applications from attorneys: I am reasonable certain they are not allowed to do this, and I'm going to report them to the Disability Rights Commision - just to spread the joy around!

    Jennifer
     
  15. Clive

    Clive Registered User

    Nov 7, 2004
    716
    There are many times when an unregistered EPA can be useful. I showed mum’s to the bank as soon as we got it so that I could always talk to the bank about any financial problem. After a couple of years the bank let me change mums account to a third party mandate which meant that I could also sign the cheques. I also used it with British Gas when we had a problem with the bill and they would not talk to me because of the Data Protection Act. It also came in useful when mum’s sister died and mum was next of kin and the solicitor would not talk to me. But always, always, send a CERTIFIED copy by post. Never ever let the original out of your position. I have just registered the EPA after 6 years of unregistered use. Send it to be registered by the expensive registered post, not the “to be signed for” one. I managed to lose two certified copies in six years.
     
  16. clymout

    clymout Registered User

    Jan 10, 2007
    23
    Devon
    Hi everyone,

    You can actually take out a third party mandate with bank/building society accounts without an EPA, either registerered or unregistered. At least, mum's bank offers this service. I have been an account signatory with her bank and building society for nearly a year and we have only just decided to make and EPA. It's a good alternative for anyone who just needs to handle day to day finances. Also, as I have discovered, as long as the person gives consent to their creditors either over the telephone or in writing, you can sort their bills for them too. Utility companys etc, just want to get their money so will work around the Data Protection Act as far as they are allowed. Mum is just about capable to have the phone passed to her and confirm her name to them, then the phone comes back to me and we do business. It's worked well so far.


    Jo
     
  17. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    I also have a third-party mandate with my mother's bank - it's Ok (not great, but I think that's the bank). The downside is that 3rd parties are not, strictly speaking, allowed to use on-line banking, while attorney's should be (I say should because that doesn't always work eihter)

    To add to clymout's point - I have had great success using conference calls (aka 3 way calls) when I've needed to speak to someone on my mother's behalf but haven't been with my mother. They're not cheap, but a lot cheaper than flying across the atlantic :)

    Jennifer
     
  18. a_daughter

    a_daughter Registered User

    Jan 30, 2007
    18
    South Buckinghamshire
    Just received our EPA

    Hi

    I have just received in the post from the solicitor our original EPA, along with several certified one.

    This was signed on Friday am; the solicitor visited the retirement home and my sister and I and mum all signed (my sis and I are joint attorneys). The solicitor's covering letter to me stated that he found my mum to be 'very well'. (Think that is relevant!)

    For this the solicitor charged us £88 which I though was very good. I deliberately chose a solicitor very local to the home (in fact he walked there from his office), so perhaps that kept the cost down.

    He advised that the certified EPA is sufficient to sell her flat so I too am confused about what the need is for it to be registered.

    Sis and I will be visiting the bank and building society in the next couple of days so that we are able to access her funds to pay her retirement home costs. I suppose we will find out then whether we need to register it soon.
     
  19. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    WArning Warning Warning!!!

    Be very careful about showing this unregistered EPA to the bank: you could end up with a frozen bank account. I have PM'd you with the name of the bank that more than one member has found to be particularly unhelpful in this area: if it's them, I would strongly suggest that you start the registration now.

    Jennifer
     
  20. abby

    abby Registered User

    Dec 19, 2006
    182
    West Country
    Totally agree with Jennifer........

    I did a drop visit on the banks today with the registered form in hand.....no warning......had already had 3rd party / joint provisions on accounts AND online banking without mentioning the unregistered EPA, BUT with Dads earlier written approval.

    This drop visit :D didn't require a freezing of accounts ( although as Jennifer implies it might / would if you speak to them too early ) and all went sweet, all sorted. This was with a large high street bank and large high street Building Society.

    I do firmly believe the transition, at this difficult time, was slick easy because I said noffink to no-one before that stamped document arrived in my grubby hands ;)

    Abby
    x
     

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