Cop

Chris ibbs

Registered User
Feb 4, 2016
9
0
Hi looking for some advice can a court appointed deputy stop me from entering/stopping at my mums property . I have my mum permission I only stop/enter when I'm visiting her as I live over 90 miles away and try and spend as much time with her as possible as she is in a home

Also
Can a social worker fill in a cop3 to assess capacity

Also
Can the deputy refuse to pay for capacity assessment as we believe my mum does have capacity also so does the home and new social worker

Sorry for all the questions in one go
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
0
London
If your Mum has lost capacity, her permission for you to be in her property would probably not count for much. It's the deputy's duty to look after her affairs so in my understanding she probably can stop you from staying there and incurring utility costs etc.

I really don't know the legalities but deputyship is usually granted only after someone has lost capacity. If you disagree I would say it is up to you to challenge this and bring proof. I don't see how the deputy can be forced to shell out for a capacity assessment after a court has granted them deputyship.

If you think she still has capacity, have you ever tried to get LPA from her?
 

Chris ibbs

Registered User
Feb 4, 2016
9
0
I've ask deputy to pay for the assessment out of my mum funds which she flatly refused. As I cant afford to pay for it myself . The deputy is a solicitor appointed by cop

I do believe along with her social worker and home staff shes got some capacity. Mum as asked me to look in to LPA but I'm told this is now not possible because there is a deputy in place

My mums house still as hers and my personal stuff in which I was told the deputy had no power to interfere with if I give her the keys she will have access to these things.on the point of running bills up I was advised by local police to put lights on timers for safety .the heating is on low to stop damp so bill are still been accumulated even if I'm not there
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,018
0
South coast
Unfortunately for you the Court of protection has made a ruling that your mum has lost capacity (yes, a SW can indeed fill in the COP3) and has appointed a deputy. As your mums son/daughter you should have had notification that deputyship was being applied for and it is usually much easier to appeal the case at that point rather than once the court has made a ruling. If you want to appeal now then Im afraid that the costs are yours - dont forget that you will also have to pay the court fees (£400) as well as paying for the capacity assessment.
Im sorry to be the bearer of bad news. As the court has appointed a solicitor I gather that there was no-one in the family who was able/willing to take on the deputyship and I expect this was done so that your mums CH fees could be paid. Unfortunately the deputy has control over your mums finances and property and it is within their rights to refuse you permission to stay at or enter your mums home, although they should allow you to remove your property.
 

Chris ibbs

Registered User
Feb 4, 2016
9
0
I did apply for the deputyship last year but was turned down as I had an DRO a few years ago which I am discharged from .i was asked by cop to nominate another person to be deputy which I did in December last year didn't hear anything from that. then in February this year was informed by the deputy she'd been appointed .
my mum now as a new SW who say in her opinion she got capacity and doesn't need cop order as she knows her own mind .
Cop say I need to get cop3 form filled in by a doctor to prove capacity which is £212 +vat . I wouldn't have to pay the £400 applications fee as it would be covered by my original payment.they've also said it's in my mum interest so deputy should pay it but she won't
Cop won't except SW to fill in new cop3 as it was them who filled in the first one . Which neither the SW or cop have got a copy of

I'm so confused
The worse thing is it really upsetting my mum what the court / deputy are doing
 
Last edited:

arielsmelody

Registered User
Jul 16, 2015
515
0
If your mum is in a care home and not likely to come back to her own house, I assume the deputy is planning to arrange for the house to be sold and the proceeds to be invested on your mum's behalf and used to pay for her care? If the house is going on the market, then having someone else using the house and storing their possessions there is obviously going to be a problem. Even if you manage to get your mum certified as having capacity, unless she has enough savings to pay for her care or she can manage at home, someone is going to have to arrange for the house to be sold or rented out eventually so you won't be able to carry on using it in the future.
 

Chris ibbs

Registered User
Feb 4, 2016
9
0
So been a deputy give her the right to sell my mum personal items . The local authorities are currently paying for CH
 

arielsmelody

Registered User
Jul 16, 2015
515
0
So the deputy has been appointed for financial affairs, and your mum is currently in a care home with very little cash savings but owns a house that is standing empty? If she owns a house, she is going to be over the threshold to be self-funding, so the LA won't pay the care home fees forever.

The deputy will have a duty to make sure that your mum's bills are paid, so they are going to have to arrange for the house to be sold, and any personal items of value to be sold or stored away safely. If there are items in the house which are of sentimental value, you need to be talking to the deputy and trying to work with her otherwise she won't know what's important and what are just everyday items to be cleared from the house.

If you do manage to get the appointment of the deputy overturned and for your mum to take over her affairs again, she will still need to do something to make sure her care home bill is paid.
 

Chris ibbs

Registered User
Feb 4, 2016
9
0
How much is the threshold for self funding . Is there a maximum you will pay for care

Can deputy sell house for less than market value . We've been warned that the firm of deputy's have a history for doing so
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,064
0
Salford
Hi Chris
I've read what you've been posting and it's a bit confusing to be honest so I'll start by telling you to get some professional advise, there are lots of Citizens' Advice Bureaux and Alzheimer's Society place where you could see if someone can sit down with you and talk it all through, the circumstances all sound a little too personal to put on here.
As you refer to a deputy I guess that someone (and you seem to say it is a legal firm) has been appointed by the Court of Protection, if so they are legally responsible for anything they do, if they sell the house under market value may well mean they end up in front of a judge having to explain their actions and possibly face the consequences if they have undersold the house.
As I said you really need a face to face with someone please find out if there is a local Alzheimer's/CAB or AGEUK or you can contact the AZ society on the link below, they will put you in touch with local help.
Please take care.
K
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents.php?categoryID=200121
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,018
0
South coast
How much is the threshold for self funding . Is there a maximum you will pay for care

Can deputy sell house for less than market value . We've been warned that the firm of deputy's have a history for doing so

The deputy has to give a written report about how they have used the money and what has happened to things like homes and any investments. When I sold mums bungalow I sold it to a friend of mums who was a cash buyer so didnt use an estate agent, but I still had to get 3 valuations to show that I was selling it for the market value. The solicitor will be legally obliged to get the best deal for your mum and if they sell for below the market value they will have to justify the reason.

The level of self-funding is over £24,000 - including the value of a house - and there is no upper limit as to how much can be paid. There was talk of it, but it hasnt happened. Your mums LA will want re-paying (and depending on the arrangements, they may be charging her interest) and the money from the house sale will pay these bills and will continue to pay the CH fees until the funds go down to under £24,000 when assistance from the LA will kick in. Once her funds go down to £14,000 the LA will be paying maximum fees, so her savings should not go down less than that.*

Edit to say that I had forgotten that the deputy will probably be charging for administering the account
 
Last edited:

Chris ibbs

Registered User
Feb 4, 2016
9
0
Yes the deputy is charging the first year is £1800+vat and every year after is £2500+vat these are minimum costs for her "help"