Consequences of not doing as LA want..?

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by CrestFallen, Oct 9, 2018.

  1. CrestFallen

    CrestFallen Registered User

    Sep 12, 2018
    74
    Hi I know in my previous threads I've brought up this topic in different ways but I'm starting get anxious now as I'm three weeks into the 12 week disregard of mums home which I live in. My question is does any one know what would happen if at the end of the 12 weeks I haven't taken out the COP ? What's the LA likely to do?
    Incidently the LA have not paid the care home anything in these three weeks which from my understanding they pay for these 12weeks as mums only capital is discarded until that times up. But they haven't completed the financial assement and I was told she would be LA funded under deffered payments scheme. My thinking is tho I don't trust the council to get any of this right not heard from them since 19 September when I moved mum into permanent care. So I'm still thinking I should walk away there's very little equity no savings and I need consider my own welfare now. So does anyone know what happens once the 12 weeks is up if nothing's in place. ? What might the LA do ?
    I'm going to ask for a discretional disregard as well I think once the council contact me. Its my only home and lived here looking after mum for years. Tho I don't hold much hope for this so I'm tempted walk away now mums settled and get on with my life ..
     
  2. Normaleila

    Normaleila Registered User

    Jun 4, 2016
    522
    A very difficult situation. As you say, you can choosee to leave it all to the LA. I wouldn't blame you - you must think of your own health. But don't leave the house. Let the mortgage company or the LA get an order to make you leave. Then you will be unintentionally homeless, which gives you more chance of being rehoused by the LA or a housing association.
     
  3. CrestFallen

    CrestFallen Registered User

    Sep 12, 2018
    74
    Thanks for replying I guess I'm going just have find out what happens for myself. Just feels such a big decision I was hoping some one might have Insight as to what they do. I know they will sieze all mums assets and belongings in our home but im not sure where that leaves me with my belongings being here as well etc. An cheers I don't intend to make myself homeless I will let them do that.
     
  4. Jessbow

    Jessbow Registered User

    COP can take months, its very rare that the COP will grant you a Deputyship in that time.

    IF the CC think that her fees will be paid under Defered Payment , Isnt that the decision that has been reached? at the end of the 12 weeks, they will expect you ( or her) to pick up the bill.

    To defer payment just means to do at a later date

    I really think you should contact them and ask for clarity.
     
  5. Louise7

    Louise7 Registered User

    Mar 25, 2016
    577
    I think I'm about to find out! I've only just received a financial assessment form to fill in, which was received after the 12 week disregard date. In the meantime we were arranging a deferred payment but this still hasn't been sorted, although I was told that it was all in progress. Last contact we received was at the end of August when we were told that the contract was going to be sent 'asap' but it still hasn't arrived. This afternoon I received a call from the council asking me what's happening about the funding? I explained the situation - that the hold up is down to them, not the family - and the caller stated that the person I have been dealing with in regards the referred payment 'doesn't have the authority to make that decision' :eek:

    Not sure what is going to happen now but the good thing is that I have an audit trail of emails to evidence what I have been told and how I have been trying to progress things. I can only suggest that you keep contacting the council finance team - via email - to find out exactly what is going on. If they don't reply at least you will have evidence that you tried to get the situation sorted.
     
  6. CrestFallen

    CrestFallen Registered User

    Sep 12, 2018
    74
    Wow Louise hopefully your email trail will provide you with enough proof that they can't argue it being your fault. I didn't know you even have to fill out a financial assessment form. Truth is without any attorney or deputy ship I can't sign any deffered payment agreement in anycase. All I've signed up to for now is a form from the council agreeing to be mums representive when I did the means test interview. They have only told me it'll be put under deffered payments so without the financial assessment results I feel theres to much speculation. Regards Jess bows thoughts I no a cop won't be in place before the 12 weeks is up. Theres only about 9 weeks left as it is. Its another reason why I'm thinking im going tell them take over. They take forever doing anything unless its you they want something from. How can they come after the money off me if its not there , its in the captial of the house? I dont have the power do anything and im thinkng im going keep it that way..

    Louise7 please let me know how you go on. My social worker emailed me today as it happens so from now on that's going be my main way of contact..
     
  7. Louise7

    Louise7 Registered User

    Mar 25, 2016
    577
    I completed & posted the financial assessment form last Tuesday and also forwarded the email chain showing that I have been chasing this up for several months. I received a letter on Saturday confirming that the assessment had been calculated. They advised the amount of contribution Mum has to pay - her pensions/benefits minus £24.90 personal expenses allowance - and said that invoices will be received directly from the home. They also confirmed that the deferred payment has been agreed until the house is sold, although I haven't received a contract for this or signed anything yet. I don't think it's usual for a financial assessment to be completed so quickly but I think that after 4 months without payment the home have been putting pressure on the council to get this sorted!

    Hope that your social worker has been helpful in getting things moving for you.
     
  8. CrestFallen

    CrestFallen Registered User

    Sep 12, 2018
    74
    Hi Louise thank you for sharing that with me. Its kind of reassuring to hear I'm not the only one who hasn't had any payments made to the home by the council. I have however today had a letter from the council saying they won't pay a penny to the nursing home until i have sent in the valuations they requested to move forward with the deffered payments I've requested ( which I havnt requested there just doing it ). I had the valuations done at the weekend so waiting for them in writing. But I like how they turn it on me because I told the care home chase up the payments with the council. Anyway I have a meeting tomorrow with my social worker only third time I've ever met with him since this all started in June .Think I'm going tell him just get on with it all , bring in an LA attorney I don't need the worry the mither the threats of funding being with held etc. There's nothing in it for me if I've got sell our home at the end of the day so why should I do all the work. Thank you Louise for remembering to update me , I wish you and yours nothing but the best..
     
  9. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    7,594
    Female
    South coast
    Make sure you send in the mortgage statements as well at the same time
     
  10. CrestFallen

    CrestFallen Registered User

    Sep 12, 2018
    74
    They already seen / had the yearly mortgage statement I've done the dwp appointees interview. Pretty much everything theyve asked only the cop is outstanding. Way I see it now I'll never get it before the 12 weeks is up. So they may aswell take over and sell it, I'll move out.
    I don't say that lightly moving out is going kill me so many memories mums things here as well but I don't see lot of choice really. I certainly don't want baby sit the house to sell it when she dies or when the amount deffered is reached as that won't take very long either..
     
  11. Louise7

    Louise7 Registered User

    Mar 25, 2016
    577
    As myself and quite a few others here have previously posted, I think you should hold off deciding anything until you get confirmation from the council about the financial assessment. Then you can make decisions based on the facts. From what you have posted the total of your Mum's assets, including the value of the house, will not take her over the £24k self-funder threshold. If a deferred payment is considered to be a viable option by the council (which seems very unlikely whilst there is an outstanding mortgage and little equity) you don't have to 'baby sit the house until she dies', but it will take the pressure off and allow you 'breathing space' to think about what to do and also look for somewhere else to live, if that's what you want.
     
  12. CrestFallen

    CrestFallen Registered User

    Sep 12, 2018
    74
    Morning ..
    Having sort of worked things out in my head the break down is roughly this.. Out of £50,000
    (Thats the 2 valuations came too) about 30 something will be ring fenced off leaving I'd say probably less £20,000 for the council to recoup as care fees. My understanding is that once the amount that's been secured against the property is reached under deffered paynents they will want it sold. Its not going last very long at nursing home fees prices. So I'm thinking cut my losses the stress the sleepless nights and let them get on with it. Please anyone tell me I'm wrong in thinking this way because in all honestly I'm torn in two as to what to do. I'm meeting the sw this afternoon to have it out with him.
     
  13. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    10,694
    Female
    London
    First, please don't meet the SW to "have it out with him" but to discuss the situation and possibly agree on a way forward. It's never great to make them your enemy.

    Second, you've been repeatedly told that your only chance of getting a discretionary disregard (and you must mention that to the SW) is to stay put, so by leaving you would not cut your losses, you would exarbate them.
     
  14. Lindy50

    Lindy50 Registered User

    Dec 11, 2013
    5,287
    Cotswolds
    I agree with @Beate. Today you have a chance to make a practical plan with the social worker. If you can try to approach the meeting in a positive way, you are more likely to succeed.
    Good luck xx
     
  15. CrestFallen

    CrestFallen Registered User

    Sep 12, 2018
    74
    Think I may have worded that bit to strongly of course I'm going to be civil I always am. You get know where going in all guns blazing. My take on things is tho I doubt very much I'll get the disgard and by staying put I'm only going get dragged deeper into the mess. The disgard will take god knows how long to sort out and in the mean time the care home will want paying. The council will no doubt threaten again to not fund mums care has they are just pushing down the deferred payment root even tho I haven't agreed to that either. In fact I can't I have no legal authority and im not inclined to get any now unless I did get a disregard. At the end of the day what do I get out of all of this without the disregard. I went look at a few property's to rent at the weekend, hence why I'm thinking just hand it over to the LA and get on with my life. I'm meeting the sw this afternoon so will see what comes of it..
     
  16. Jessbow

    Jessbow Registered User

    Try and keep calm and take one step at a time. Its a difficult time and you are getting in a real twizz about it.

    Ask for a disregard based on how long you have lived in the property with mum. If they agree to disregard, Then she will be assesed for funding from SS. The contract will then be between council and Home, not you.

    If they do agree, I think you (not Mum) will have to pick up the mortgage payments each month.and meet the other costs ( bills etc)


    If they wont agree to the disregard, Then the property needs valueing. Market value of the property minus, amount owing on Mortgage.

    Then it has to be actually sold, as her assets realised. That can all be theoretically worked out today, give or take.


    Its only when you have an idea how much she might realise from the property + Any savings she might have, will you know how much she may or may not be expected to pay.
     
  17. Daffy123

    Daffy123 Registered User

    Feb 1, 2018
    35
    I'm admit I'm not a specialist on the situation you find yourself in but couple of things come to mind. I think you have to build a case if you want a discretionary disregard and therefore the CAB might be worth contacting. If I remember rightly you have paid towards the mortgage? Also have you over the years contributed to building work or the buying of large items for the house?
    That might all strengthen your case for a discretionary disregard.
    Additionally, could it work out cheaper financially if you stayed in your Mum's home? (If you move out a discretionary disregard won't be possible.)
    I highlighted the above quote as it was though proving as my belongs mingled with my mothers. There's a change one day that I'll find myself in the same situation. I'm sorry you've got to go through all of this stress, upset and worry.
     
  18. CrestFallen

    CrestFallen Registered User

    Sep 12, 2018
    74
    Your correct I'm in a tizz and spinning like a top. I have the care home asking for £150 a week because the council aren't paying anything and the council saying they aren't paying the care home until they have the assement done. I've had the evaluations done its around £50,000 minus mortgage and mums low threshold of what she's allowed to keep £14 something. So it will leave only £20 or less afterwards. My point being if a disregard is refused then why should I want stay there and sort it all out for them just to make myself homeless further down the line. This is what I'll be asking my sw along with why have I only seen him 3 times in all these months.. But I'll be nice about it lol..
     
  19. CrestFallen

    CrestFallen Registered User

    Sep 12, 2018
    74
    It would certainly be cheaper staying in mums home. But like I've said before the disregard I have no idea how it would take and in the mean time what happens with everything else. The funding etc the payments and so on. My possessions like yours are mingled in with mums and I can't help wondering how on earth I ever got into such a mess just because I stayed looking after my mum. Not done anything wrong yet feel like I have and the decisions I need to make are gut wrenching. Why I keep thinking the easier option is move out and give it over to them..
     
  20. Jessbow

    Jessbow Registered User

    #20 Jessbow, Oct 16, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
    Is the £150 a week that the care home is asking for, a top up?

    her fees will be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay higher than that - more like £900-- £1000 Per month!

    If you manage to get the house disregarded, thats out of the equasion, everything is worked out again on the assets she has ( as if she didn't have it) so in that regard she cannot be expected to contribute to its upkeep,
     

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