As I said I will get legal advice but I am very aware that a number of peoples welfare are involved in this, and one person I am worried for is my sisters boy, my nephew. I dont want him to lose his home or have to change school. I care alot for him and him and my son are very close.
clarity on legal obligations
- Thread starter Justin62
- Start date
Only from then, not before.
AA can be spent on anything the recipient wants. It does not have to be accounted for. The only thing that can change is eligibility.
Last edited:
No it can't be spent on anything they want - that is a common misconception
What is it?
Attendance Allowance (AA) is
a benefit for severely disabled
people if they need help with
personal care.
from the NHS website.
I'd just like to say I'm not getting into this arguement with you it is waste of time
What is it?
Attendance Allowance (AA) is
a benefit for severely disabled
people if they need help with
personal care.
from the NHS website.
I'd just like to say I'm not getting into this arguement with you it is waste of time
Hi Fizzie
I know Attendance Allowance is for Dad and his money but he needs full time care and I am that full time care. He pays me a regular standing order each month from his account which was agreed years ago now so that I could leave my full time employment.
So far as housekeeping and bills go I am keeping records.
Hi Katrine
Thank you - yes Dad has definitely agreed it and can afford it. I am not claiming any means tested benefits.
I know Attendance Allowance is for Dad and his money but he needs full time care and I am that full time care. He pays me a regular standing order each month from his account which was agreed years ago now so that I could leave my full time employment.
So far as housekeeping and bills go I am keeping records.
Hi Katrine
Thank you - yes Dad has definitely agreed it and can afford it. I am not claiming any means tested benefits.
Last edited:
It might be helpful to clarify the issue of Attendance Allowance. This is the Age UK information summary -
http://www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/financial-support/help-with-benefits/attendance-allowance
This is their Factsheet -
http://www.carersuk.org/files/helpandadvice/4206/factsheet-uk1027--attendance-allowance-2015-16.pdf
http://www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/financial-support/help-with-benefits/attendance-allowance
This is their Factsheet -
http://www.carersuk.org/files/helpandadvice/4206/factsheet-uk1027--attendance-allowance-2015-16.pdf
If you are advising people wrongly then you really should discus it. AA is not means tested and is based on needs. You do not have to prove where the money goes.
From AgeUk.....
"Attendance Allowance isn’t means-tested, so your income and savings aren’t taken into account. You don’t actually have to receive help from a carer, as Attendance Allowance is based on the help you need, not the help you actually get.
And you don’t have to spend your Attendance Allowance on care – it’s up to you how you use it. Attendance Allowance can help you to stay independent in your own home. So don’t delay in making a claim if you think you could be eligible."
My mom who lives in NH gets £100 heating allowance. Who do suggest she hands it over to?
That is the system. Your views on how you think it should work is not that relevant even though I may agree.
I am not giving people incorrect information. I am well aware that it is non means tested but you are wrong it is not intended to go into the household budget - it is for the needs of the person it is given to as it says on the government website
You could get £55.10 or £82.30 a week to help with personal care because you’re physically or mentally disabled and you’re aged 65 or over.
If it is used for anything else it is fraudulent!
The reason that they say Attendance Allowance is based on the help you need, not the help you actually get. is because a lot of older people aren't getting the care that they need so it means they will give them the money to buy the care. Your interpretation is completely wrong - it doesn't mean so here's the money go off on holiday and leave the person without the care they need!! or go to the pub on us!!!! It means here's the money make sure they are well looked after
You could get £55.10 or £82.30 a week to help with personal care because you’re physically or mentally disabled and you’re aged 65 or over.
If it is used for anything else it is fraudulent!
The reason that they say Attendance Allowance is based on the help you need, not the help you actually get. is because a lot of older people aren't getting the care that they need so it means they will give them the money to buy the care. Your interpretation is completely wrong - it doesn't mean so here's the money go off on holiday and leave the person without the care they need!! or go to the pub on us!!!! It means here's the money make sure they are well looked after
Last edited:
You could get £55.10 or £82.30 a week to help with personal care because you’re physically or mentally disabled and you’re aged 65 or over.
If it is used for anything else it is fraudulent![/QUOTE]
Well I do know my mum gets the higher rate, but it does get paid into the acct, which my sister also is a joint holder of.
I guess it should be paid into a separate acct, or my sisters name should be struck off the acct. Would the care home fees still be paid. I dont know if they are paid by DD, or whether my sister writes a monthly cheque. I am friendly with the care home staff, I visit my mum regularly, but I wouldnt know who to ask about this.
If it is used for anything else it is fraudulent![/QUOTE]
Well I do know my mum gets the higher rate, but it does get paid into the acct, which my sister also is a joint holder of.
I guess it should be paid into a separate acct, or my sisters name should be struck off the acct. Would the care home fees still be paid. I dont know if they are paid by DD, or whether my sister writes a monthly cheque. I am friendly with the care home staff, I visit my mum regularly, but I wouldnt know who to ask about this.
To say it is "fraudulent" is very, very wrong. I believe Age Uk have it spot on. Can you provide one case of where fraud has been alleged or even proven?
A multi millionaire could claim AA and never have to declare where it goes.
Where does my Mom's heating allowance (a similar non means tested allowance) have to go? At the moment it is on low alcohol wine. Is she committing fraud?
Justin I'm sorry we have hi-jacked your thread and gone off at a tangent. It makes me cross because I know a number of households where the AA is going into the family budget and that is not how it is intended to be used - there are moves afoot to ensure that this doesn't happen and make it fully accountable.
If the person is not self funded then the LA would normally ensure that the Attendance Allowance goes against the care home fees. In your Mother's case if she is in a care home the attendance allowance should go to the care home - after all she isn't being looked after at home so how can it be being used for her needs and personal care? If the LA or the OPG catch up with it there will be serious trouble. You are really best advised to go to CAB and take legal advice - I don't have a legal background so I can't help with the ins and outs of legalities. I would advise that you make a list of all the monies that you know your sister is handling - savings, current accounts and the money going in that you know about - Attendance Allowance, pensions, anything else and speak to a CAB solicitor about the whole thing - they will be able to tell you and to advise you on how to deal with it. xx
If the person is not self funded then the LA would normally ensure that the Attendance Allowance goes against the care home fees. In your Mother's case if she is in a care home the attendance allowance should go to the care home - after all she isn't being looked after at home so how can it be being used for her needs and personal care? If the LA or the OPG catch up with it there will be serious trouble. You are really best advised to go to CAB and take legal advice - I don't have a legal background so I can't help with the ins and outs of legalities. I would advise that you make a list of all the monies that you know your sister is handling - savings, current accounts and the money going in that you know about - Attendance Allowance, pensions, anything else and speak to a CAB solicitor about the whole thing - they will be able to tell you and to advise you on how to deal with it. xx
Selinacroft still lives with her dad, who has mental capacity. Her dad chooses to make regular payments her. "There are no restrictions on how you can spend your Attendance Allowance, and you do not have to spend it on paying for the care that you need." from the CarersUK Fact sheet.
Justin42, your situation is different. Your mum continues to receive AA because she is entitled to it. However, since she has now lost mental capacity she cannot continue to subsidise other people without approval from the OPG that this is an appropriate use of her funds. Her AA payments should either be used to pay for her care and personal expenses, or be accruing in a suitable savings account or investment plan.
Justin42, your situation is different. Your mum continues to receive AA because she is entitled to it. However, since she has now lost mental capacity she cannot continue to subsidise other people without approval from the OPG that this is an appropriate use of her funds. Her AA payments should either be used to pay for her care and personal expenses, or be accruing in a suitable savings account or investment plan.
"There are no restrictions on how you can spend your AA, and you do not have to spend it on paying for the care that you need."
A lot of people have their personal care carried out by their loved ones, so there is no official bill. They are still eligible. So I don't consider it fraudulent. However, personally I would never take OH's AA money as I consider it his. It gets added to his account and any expenses to do with his incontinence for instance can come out of it. And inco pads are costly!
A lot of people have their personal care carried out by their loved ones, so there is no official bill. They are still eligible. So I don't consider it fraudulent. However, personally I would never take OH's AA money as I consider it his. It gets added to his account and any expenses to do with his incontinence for instance can come out of it. And inco pads are costly!
I'll throw that question back to you - the money comes from tax payers to help older people not have to make the choice between heating and eating - so where should that money go to - morally? Not into a present for the grandchildren I would suggest.
Anyway there won't be that option for much longer - the system will be changed because people are abusing it!
Funnily enough, this reminds me of something my sister said last time I tried to discuss the whole issue with her. She said because my mum is self funding all the rules re. people having to apply for Deputyship dont apply, and something like - 'Do you really think a multi-millionaire's family would have to do that? They would just do what they think is right and noone has the right to interfere.
Justin42, your situation is different. Your mum continues to receive AA because she is entitled to it. However, since she has now lost mental capacity she cannot continue to subsidise other people without approval from the OPG that this is an appropriate use of her funds. Her AA payments should either be used to pay for her care and personal expenses, or be accruing in a suitable savings account or investment plan.[/QUOTE]
Ok thanks. At least that situation is clarified!
Ok thanks. At least that situation is clarified!
Just read this thread - it seems to me that as Selinacroft has given up her job to look after her father, the AA is being used for what it was intended - ie her caring for her father. If she didnt do it he would have to pay probably more than the AA to strangers for his care . As he has the capacity to make that decision I dont think anything wrong has been done.
When my husband was assessed for AA when he was at home, he got the top rate and it just went into the joint account and helped me pay for sitters, and other expenses necessary due to his dementia, but I didnt have to account for it. When he went into a care home, he got NHS CHC and so it was stopped. If he had been self-funding it would have continued to help pay for the care home fees.
Well it certainly doesn't say that on the Government website - my quote was taken directly from there - and it says it is paid for personal care but you are right it should be spent on the person however that is done.
Do you not get inco pads through the NHS? or aren't they suitable? They are horribly expensive
Justin there is a requirement to let the Benefits office know if
Changes of circumstances
Your circumstances can affect how much you get, eg moving between the lower and higher rates. You must contact the Attendance Allowance helpline if your circumstances change. For example:
the level of help you need or your condition changes
you go into hospital or a care home for more than 4 weeks
you go abroad for more than 13 weeks
you’re imprisoned or held in detention
You must also contact the helpline if:
you change your name, address or bank details
you want to stop receiving your benefit
your doctor’s details change
I have read this thread with interest and another aspect strikes me. Since only your sister has access to your mothers finances then only she knows what her assets are and how long they will last as care home fees are punitive. You may find that your sister has been subsidising her own lifestyle from your mothers assets and that the sale of the house will be necessary sooner rather than later. She is already setting up an obstacle to the eventual sale of the house which presumably will be inherited by you both.
The lack of clarity and openness on the state of your mothers finances is very disturbing and all paperwork needs to be made available immediately or legal advice obtained.
The lack of clarity and openness on the state of your mothers finances is very disturbing and all paperwork needs to be made available immediately or legal advice obtained.
Beate yes the penny has finally dropped here - as long as you have the care needs then you can spend it on what you want!! The assumption is that it will be spent on your care in one way or another because the eligibility as we all know is quite high. Apologies
I totally agree about this, and I will take steps to get more transparency. I dont think the house will have to be sold before my mum passes, as the care home fees are reasonable, and my mum gets an unusually generous widows pension, plus her state pension and the attendance allowance.
I do know that my mum has left myself and the sister the house.
