Chip and SIGNITURE cards used for CONTACTLESS -payment

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Clive, Jan 12, 2016.

  1. Clive

    Clive Registered User

    Nov 7, 2004
    716
    Has anyone had experience of using a chip and SIGNITURE debit or credit card on a CONTACTLESS payment terminal like in a Costa Coffee shop? I know a chip and SIGNITURE card is ideal for some people who get in a muddle over pin numbers, and my wife uses one with no difficulty to pay for groceries. However her card has just been renewed and she has been issued with a replacement card with the CONTACTLESS symbol on it. BUT the people in the bank branch worn that she must not use it as a CONTACTLESS card because they say after every few transactions the CONTACTLESS payment terminal will ask for a PIN number… which she does not have because her card is chip and SIGNITURE… and of course a payment refusal will cause big problems for her when on her own.
    Anyone had this experience?
     
  2. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,255
    Male
    North Manchester
    No experience but the bank appear to be correct in that a challenge is sometimes made.

    Contactless
    Contactless technology is a feature introduced in 2007 on many credit and debit cards for transactions of £20 or less. It works by cardholders holding their contactless-enabled card up to a secure reader to make their payments. This provides a fast and effective alternative to cash that can reduce queues, and utilises the security built into a chip & PIN card. Contactless cards are secured by the same advanced technology that underpins chip & PIN. Though the card would not usually require a PIN to be entered, from time-to-time a chip & PIN transaction will be requested. This is designed to deter fraudulent use should a card be lost or stolen; each time a PIN is used it re-affirms you are in possession of your card.


    http://www.theukcardsassociation.or...ns/card-present-transactions.asp#content_1310

    What is not clear is whether or not a Chip and Signature card being used contactlessly would ask for a PIN or a signature and what would happen if the shop cancelled the transaction and started a new one using a signature.

    Your wife could have the contactless feature removed, some cards are opt in, others have it by default, one of my cards had it by default and I had it removed.
     
  3. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,045
    Staffs
    I use contactless and have never been asked to enter a pin. However there have been times when the machine did not work and I have had to revert back to chip & pin.

    Can you not just ask the bank to send another card that does not have "contactless"?
     
  4. jaymor

    jaymor Volunteer Moderator

    Jul 14, 2006
    12,550
    Female
    England
    I requested and received replacements for my two contactless cards, I don't want it.

    Staff at both banks were baffled why I did not want it but happy to order me replacements without.
     
  5. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,045
    Staffs
    Do you mind saying why?:)

    I have found it really useful especially on the occasional trip to London where you get the cheapest fares on the tube.
     
  6. jaymor

    jaymor Volunteer Moderator

    Jul 14, 2006
    12,550
    Female
    England

    I don't need it, so see no reason to accept the extra chance if it being misused should I misplace or loose.

    I will add that I was a banker for 40 years, so it may seem irrational but my cards have always worked fine for me in the past.
     
  7. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    5,313
    Female
    Chester
    I've regularly used contactless since 2012, and never been asked for a PIN. Use it to pay for morning train ticket for instance if don't have change. I find it is often quicker than cash when I pop into the local Coop for odd bits.

    I do use the card in between contactless transactions for bigger transactions where I use my PIN and not all shops have the facilities for contactless. I suspect that when the PIN is used on a larger transaction, this resets it to not needing a PIN entry (which having to sign might well do as well).

    The limit is now £30.
     
  8. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,045
    Staffs
    Fair enough.:)
     
  9. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,255
    Male
    North Manchester
    "I suspect that when the PIN is used on a larger transaction, this resets it to not needing a PIN entry (which having to sign might well do as well)."

    I think your suspicions are well founded. I've just looked at a few banks' T&Cs and they all say something along the lines of this example from Santander

    You don’t have to enter your PIN for payments under £30 (you may occasionally be asked to enter your PIN as a security measure to verify that you, the authorised cardholder, are still in possession of the card)
     
  10. Clive

    Clive Registered User

    Nov 7, 2004
    716
    Thanks everybody.
    On the face of it this is simple… but as we all know a simple concern can become a major issue.
    The chip and SIGNITURE version of a VISA credit or debit card is marvellous for a person who has lost their memory for numbers; however it does make that person stand out in the supermarket queue as being different (vulnerable) as they sign the bill for groceries.
    I consider the CONTACTLESS card to be even better as there is no obvious difference between the various people using them, and most elderly people already understand the CONTACTLESS concept from using their Bus Pass on public transport.
    Unfortunately when Santander replaced my wife’s Chip and SIGNITURE debit card because it had reached its expire date the accompanying letter said it needed a pin number before it could be activated as a new CONTACTLESS card. The manager of the local branch and his assistant tell her the same thing so, to her mind it has to be so, and she will not go and experiment with it on a CONTACTLESS terminal in case it does not work and she is embarrassed.
    I think that if she was to go to COSTA COFFEE and actually use the card It will work CONTACTLESSLY, and if it ever required authorising with a PIN the VISA terminal will automatically ask for a signature, BUT because the bank staff have said it cannot be used nothing I can say or do will change this.
    So I just wondered if any other Chip and SIGNITURE card user has been told the same thing.
    I find it is amazing so few people have a Chip and SIGNATURE card as they are so useful for people with memory concerns. They seem to be a well-kept secret.
    Thanks for the replies.
     
  11. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,731
    None of us have contactless cards. I heard one of the top finance gurus on Radio 4 saying how they are the least secure of any cards and we too have always requested non-contactless - even had to change banks for one account because they do not give you an option
    I'm sure one day the technology will get there but it is not there yet
     
  12. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,045
    Staffs
    Fizzie they are very secure for the owner of the card, more so than chip&pin as there is a limit of a £30 spend.

    As long as the card is reported lost/stolen the bank is responsible for any loss as with any other type of card.

    I can see pre loaded contactless cards/bracelets as a very useful way of keeping people independent.

    :)
     
  13. Mal2

    Mal2 Registered User

    Oct 14, 2014
    2,968
    Enfield
    I have never used my card as contactless. My brother, used his and noticed on the receipt, it had printed the whole of the details from the card, so, he has not used it as contactless since.
     
  14. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,731
    That isn't what this guy said
     
  15. jaymor

    jaymor Volunteer Moderator

    Jul 14, 2006
    12,550
    Female
    England
    I have to agree with fizzie. A lost chip and PIN can't be used by anyone picking it up. ( I am not talking about the very savvy fraudsters who seem able to just about anything).
    A contactless one can be used.

    Yes the banks will honour amounts taken after notification but when someone with dementia is involved then there is more risk of it being lost and if not used on a daily basis, risk of time passing without knowing it has been lost.

    No doubt the banks will flag up increased and continual use of contactless activity but this will be too late for anyone who has not realised their card is missing.

    There is added risk with a contactless and it has to be an individual choice as to the risk versus the convenience. As said in a previous post I asked for my cards to be issued without the contactless facility.
     
  16. fizzie

    fizzie Registered User

    Jul 20, 2011
    2,731
    That is really scary, someone on the programme said the same and they said 'oh that is unusual' and then had about 50 calls saying the same thing - just what someone with dementia needs!!!!! or any of us for that matter lol
     
  17. CollegeGirl

    CollegeGirl Registered User

    Jan 19, 2011
    9,525
    North East England
    I do use my card occasionally for contactless payment, and find it very convenient, but do worry that if I lost my card, or had it stolen, someone could rack up quite a few £30 transactions just by going from shop to shop, before I noticed it was missing and reported it.

    What would happen then? Would I still be liable for these up to the point when I reported my card as lost/stolen?
     
  18. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,255
    Male
    North Manchester
    "Would I still be liable for these up to the point when I reported my card as lost/stolen?"

    I think so, a safeguard is that if there was uncharacteristic or multiple purchases near the limit the system would probably ask for the PIN.

    If the card was in a purse/wallet that was stolen or lost any bank notes in the purse/wallet would have no protection at all.
     
  19. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,045
    Staffs
    Same as any fraudulent use of a card in that you report it as fraudulent to your bank/issuer and in most cases receive a refund.

    Contactless payments may take a tad longer to appear on your statement as they are immediately authorised in the same way as chip&pin so you do need to check statements carefully.

    http://www.theukcardsassociation.org.uk/contactless_consumer/ContactlessSecurity2015.asp
     
  20. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,045
    Staffs
    Just found some interesting figures from the UK Cards Association, the trade body for the card payments industry in the UK, show that in 2014, the total annual contactless fraud loss was £153,000 compared with total spending of £2.32 billion.

    This represents 0.7p in every £100 spent on contactless.

    Total card fraud losses (all forms, not just contactless) stood at 7.5p in every £100 spent on all debit and credit cards in 2014.

    :)
     

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