Cheap alternatives to care homes and assessment centre's?

[LYN T]

Seashell, I'm very sorry that you are so angry about your Mum's situation; I too cannot understand why your Mum has been in an assessment unit so long. Is she sectioned/DOLS? Is she there as a 'voluntary patient'? My Husband was sectioned 5 times and each time was a positive experience for him. I went out of my way to have a good relationship with Pete's Consultant so I'm sorry that doesn't seem to be the case for you.

As for the noise in the Unit; my Husband was also distressed by noise so I requested that at all times he had 1 to 1 care. The Consultant arranged this for Pete as she was aware of how disturbed it made him. I know that this isn't always possible due to staffing levels but if your Mum is at risk from other patients please ask.

Has your Mum been allocated a SW? If so he/she should be looking for a CH/NH for your Mum; of course, that only applies if she has been deemed fit to leave the Unit. I was told that Pete wouldn't be allowed home but IMO the SW was dragging his feet so I did the leg work. I found the perfect CH for him.

As for the medics having an agenda for keeping your Mum in the unit-I don't think that could be possible. People only have an 'ulterior motive' if there is some benefit to them. Places in these units are as rare as hen's teeth and each place costs the NHS as lot of money.

As you are still concerned about the medication please ask the Ward Manager what benefit the meds are giving your Mum. Voice your concerns in a polite way with no accusations. Perhaps also ask why your Mum is still in the Unit and what they see her immediate future care entails.

I wish you well

 

[SEASHELL]

What ulterior motive do you think they might have to want to keep your mum in the assessment unit? I can't imagine they stand to benefit from your mother being there if she doesn't need to be and her needs could be met elsewhere. Surely there is as great a demand for beds in there as there are in Hospitals?

I can't quite work out why your mother is there as you feel it is completely inappropriate. I can only think that they feel your mother needs the close monitoring that they provide. Is she completely different to all the other residents?

What do the nursing staff think?

Well I've got my ideas but maybe someone else can have a guess? It would be interesting to see what people can come up with.

My mother was one of the best there as I got the consultant to lower more medication and she improved but I was still worried the remaining medication was affecting her. She's been on diazepam for years and I've read this should only be prescribed for short periods of time as it can actually cause dementia or dementia like symptoms. Then of course she had the stroke and has gone downhill a bit but we were told in the normal hospital last week the diazepam had been removed but I'll have to try and find out what medication she's on now but they've become more secretive. The doctor in the normal hospital said she might be put back on Simvastatin but I told her that was one of the drugs we had to take her off as it was making her ill and making her memory much worse. As soon as she was taken off it (after I kept pestering for it to be lowered) she put a stone in weight back on and her memory improved and was less confused.

Some of the nurse's I've spoken to have been surprised themselves how long she's been there for.

It's not only like they want her to stay there...........it's like they're desperate to keep her there. Maybe more people should try and get their relatives into assessment centre's as it'll save on care home fees. Only problem is you could end up with a pill pushing consultant who denies any problems are to do with medication.

 

[SEASHELL]

Seashell, I'm very sorry that you are so angry about your Mum's situation; I too cannot understand why your Mum has been in an assessment unit so long. Is she sectioned/DOLS? Is she there as a 'voluntary patient'? My Husband was sectioned 5 times and each time was a positive experience for him. I went out of my way to have a good relationship with Pete's Consultant so I'm sorry that doesn't seem to be the case for you.

As for the noise in the Unit; my Husband was also distressed by noise so I requested that at all times he had 1 to 1 care. The Consultant arranged this for Pete as she was aware of how disturbed it made him. I know that this isn't always possible due to staffing levels but if your Mum is at risk from other patients please ask.

Has your Mum been allocated a SW? If so he/she should be looking for a CH/NH for your Mum; of course, that only applies if she has been deemed fit to leave the Unit. I was told that Pete wouldn't be allowed home but IMO the SW was dragging his feet so I did the leg work. I found the perfect CH for him.

As for the medics having an agenda for keeping your Mum in the unit-I don't think that could be possible. People only have an 'ulterior motive' if there is some benefit to them. Places in these units are as rare as hen's teeth and each place costs the NHS as lot of money.

As you are still concerned about the medication please ask the Ward Manager what benefit the meds are giving your Mum. Voice your concerns in a polite way with no accusations. Perhaps also ask why your Mum is still in the Unit and what they see her immediate future care entails.

I wish you well

Well the DOLS people sectioned her but I gave the consultant and assessment centre an explanation of why my mother ended up there and it was because of a massive overdose of tablets in the nursing home (long story). Virtually nothing has been done to try and get my mother out of this situation since (apart from when I kept on about lowering the medication) and my father's of no help.

As for the alterior motive this is what puzzles me. They seem desperate to hang on to her and you'd think not only would there be a shortage of beds (like they're claiming everywhere) but you'd think the sooner she could come back home the sooner she's no longer their problem. And I asked recently one of the nurse's to find out what medication my mother was currently on and the ward manager said only next of kin could have it. My father's supposedly next of kin but he doesn't like to ask what tablets she's on.

 

[SEASHELL]

I know you are frustrated but local authorities do not 'get' people's houses. The value of the houses is used to pay care fees. LAs have to enforce the law as it stands; they really don't make these rules.

You may believe it could be done much cheaper but where is the evidence for that?

I know the NHS is stretched (probably because of government cuts and creeping privatisation even though they deny it) but elderly care like this should be one of the top priorities for the NHS and people shouldn't have to sell their's or their parents houses. I bet someone's making money somewhere.

 

[SEASHELL]

If a care home had just one member of staff on duty earning the living wage of £8.45 per hour = £220.80 for 24 hours......

Obviously a care home has many more staff, buildings to maintain and insure, equipment to buy and maintain, administration staff, gardeners, chefs, food, activities coordinators, vehicles etc etc

And care workers are on rock bottom wages, sadly.

Even my mother's domiciliary care, (which is only to get her up) and daycare costs come to more than £200 per week.

No one likes the care system we have but if people are not prepared to pay higher taxes even for the NHS, then care needs don't get a look in.

Personally I would be happy to pay more tax but imagine the tabloid press headlines if this were to happen.

As for local authorities 'getting their hands on houses' - selling a house to pay for care is usually a last resort.....

Well many people say our tax money is being wasted on many things like foreign wars, buying arms like fighter jets from the US (I saw an article that the F35 jet is costing trillions on both sides of the atlantic) not to mention other things.

I think most people would pay more if they had rock solid proof the money was being invested in the NHS. Of course they're trying to privatise it bit by bit.

 

[Pickles53]

I know the NHS is stretched (probably because of government cuts and creeping privatisation even though they deny it) but elderly care like this should be one of the top priorities for the NHS and people shouldn't have to sell their's or their parents houses. I bet someone's making money somewhere.

I don't at all disagree that elderly care should be better funded but everyone thinks that the illness/health problem they have to deal with should be the highest priority. Nobody wants to say what should be a lower priority.

Most of the things the NHS buys come from companies which would not exist at all unless they made a profit. Pension funds invest in those companies and their dividends enable the funds to pay people's private pensions. Everything is connected....

 

[Jessbow]

You seem very angry, maybe justified, but what do you see as a solution?

You will NOT find a care home at £200, per week however long you look.
I fail to understand why your mother is still ( or was, her needs will need re assessing now) in an assessment until 3 years on.

Do you find that the Dr's are hutting you out? Do you ever wonder why? Sinvastatin actually reduces the incidence of strokes, and a Dr has spent many years being trained - yet Good old google knows better?

have you been offered a place in a funded nursing home? there are financial pinch points at which places are funded, and wealth exceeds these, a place simply has to be paid for or the patient returned home.

Where did you expect your mother to be discharged to? If her stroke was mild and she is housed with medical staff it seems appropriate to discharge her there and her care to continue as it was.

Where do I think the NHS should prioritise funding? For those that stand a chance of recovery, not thse with a terminal illness. If the NHS had £5000, should they use this to treat my 40 year old friend, of perfectly sound mind, with non Hodgekins Lymphoma or to day-to-day care for my 80 year parent with dementia?
Difficult, but I know what I'd say was better use of the money

 

[notsogooddtr]

You seem very angry, maybe justified, but what do you see as a solution?

You will NOT find a care home at £200, per week however long you look.
I fail to understand why your mother is still ( or was, her needs will need re assessing now) in an assessment until 3 years on.

Do you find that the Dr's are hutting you out? Do you ever wonder why? Sinvastatin actually reduces the incidence of strokes, and a Dr has spent many years being trained - yet Good old google knows better?

have you been offered a place in a funded nursing home? there are financial pinch points at which places are funded, and wealth exceeds these, a place simply has to be paid for or the patient returned home.

Where did you expect your mother to be discharged to? If her stroke was mild and she is housed with medical staff it seems appropriate to discharge her there and her care to continue as it was.

Where do I think the NHS should prioritise funding? For those that stand a chance of recovery, not thse with a terminal illness. If the NHS had £5000, should they use this to treat my 40 year old friend, of perfectly sound mind, with non Hodgekins Lymphoma or to day-to-day care for my 80 year parent with dementia?
Difficult, but I know what I'd say was better use of the money

A very good point,there are so many demands on the resources of the NHS,there are always going to be 'losers'Re Seashells mother,I too am puzzled that she has been in assessment centre for so long and certainly can't understand what the ulterior motive might be.

 

[LYN T]

Seashell, thanks for confirming that your Mum is on a DOLS. For what it's worth this is what I would do in your position; as your Mum is not under a section I would be doing lots of legwork to find a CH for her. Depending on whether she would be self funding, or LA funding I would be looking for a suitable CH/NH near you. Visit many, phone many more, and be honest about her condition.

Ask your Dad to either tell the Consultant that you have found her a home and ask if it's ok if a staff member from your chosen one to do an assessment , or get your Dad to have it put on your Mum's record that you will be NOK from now on. (I don't actually know if that can be done-but other TP members will).

The DOLS will have to be applied for by the CH as I don't think it's transferable.

If you can find a place for your Mum she will be a patient of the CH's own GP (unless she wants to stay with the GP she has at the moment) and that's when the meds could be reviewed. I do urge you however to listen to why she is on the meds and not be too critical. If a GP agrees with your Mum's Consultant then I'm afraid you will have to bow to their greater knowledge and experience.

I have a feeling here that a SW has possibly been overworked or not doing enough to get your Mum discharged. Again, I have to ask you has her SW had any contact with you?

 

[SEASHELL]

You seem very angry, maybe justified, but what do you see as a solution?

You will NOT find a care home at £200, per week however long you look.
I fail to understand why your mother is still ( or was, her needs will need re assessing now) in an assessment until 3 years on.

Do you find that the Dr's are hutting you out? Do you ever wonder why? Sinvastatin actually reduces the incidence of strokes, and a Dr has spent many years being trained - yet Good old google knows better?

have you been offered a place in a funded nursing home? there are financial pinch points at which places are funded, and wealth exceeds these, a place simply has to be paid for or the patient returned home.

Where did you expect your mother to be discharged to? If her stroke was mild and she is housed with medical staff it seems appropriate to discharge her there and her care to continue as it was.

Where do I think the NHS should prioritise funding? For those that stand a chance of recovery, not thse with a terminal illness. If the NHS had £5000, should they use this to treat my 40 year old friend, of perfectly sound mind, with non Hodgekins Lymphoma or to day-to-day care for my 80 year parent with dementia?
Difficult, but I know what I'd say was better use of the money

They should be treating both and not writing elderly people off. As for where I want her transferred to.......I want my mother back home and away from these doctors. I want to try and find a doctor who wants to help her get better and not write her off like the ones dealing with her constantly do. My mother ended up in the assessment centre because of a massive overdose of tablets.

As for the Simvastatin I take it you know for sure it reduces the risk of strokes? All I can say from my experience is that it made her more confused, her memory became worse and she became more and more agitated. So much so that I feared she'd have a stroke. after I pestered the consultant to lower it she became better and actually put a stone in weight back on. Maybe it does help some people but if that was supposed to reduce the incidence of strokes with my mother then I'm the tooth fairy. And it's not just on Google. There's been many stories in the newspapers about it for years.

And yes I am justified in being angry. My mother's life (and mine) has been ruined by these people and their so called 'helpful' medication over the past few years. The dementia drug she was put on caused her to have seizures in the first place.

 

[SEASHELL]

Seashell, thanks for confirming that your Mum is on a DOLS. For what it's worth this is what I would do in your position; as your Mum is not under a section I would be doing lots of legwork to find a CH for her. Depending on whether she would be self funding, or LA funding I would be looking for a suitable CH/NH near you. Visit many, phone many more, and be honest about her condition.

Ask your Dad to either tell the Consultant that you have found her a home and ask if it's ok if a staff member from your chosen one to do an assessment , or get your Dad to have it put on your Mum's record that you will be NOK from now on. (I don't actually know if that can be done-but other TP members will).

The DOLS will have to be applied for by the CH as I don't think it's transferable.

If you can find a place for your Mum she will be a patient of the CH's own GP (unless she wants to stay with the GP she has at the moment) and that's when the meds could be reviewed. I do urge you however to listen to why she is on the meds and not be too critical. If a GP agrees with your Mum's Consultant then I'm afraid you will have to bow to their greater knowledge and experience.

I have a feeling here that a SW has possibly been overworked or not doing enough to get your Mum discharged. Again, I have to ask you has her SW had any contact with you?

The SW had some contact with us a few years back but since then nothing. I'd probably get the usual "it's dementia and nothing to do with the medication" answer from her too just like the others so I've only contacted the consultant.

I have absolutely no faith in why she's on the meds now and I'm not sure if she's been put on more again. I've told them the reason why my mother ended up in the assessment centre (because of a massive overdose) but they're not very interested in trying my mother on a measured withdrawal like I've constantly asked for and this is the reason why she's just had a stroke. My mother's gone from a quiet hospital to a noisy ward again. Don't get me wrong the nurse's there seem to try their best but she should be in a quiet place with rehabilitation .

All I've ever asked for is for her to be tried on a measured withdrawal so she can hopefully come back home again but it's like getting blood out of a stone with them. We can't afford a care home so there's not much point in looking for one. I was just wondering if there's any cheap alternatives even for a few times a week and my father's not much help so it's pointless talking to him at the moment. If I had my own place I'd taker her out instantly. It would be hard but I'd do anything to get these doctors dealing with her there out of my mothers life and try and find a sympathetic doctor.

 

[LYN T]

The SW had some contact with us a few years back but since then nothing. I'd probably get the usual "it's dementia and nothing to do with the medication" answer from her too just like the others so I've only contacted the consultant.

I have absolutely no faith in why she's on the meds now and I'm not sure if she's been put on more again. I've told them the reason why my mother ended up in the assessment centre (because of a massive overdose) but they're not very interested in trying my mother on a measured withdrawal like I've constantly asked for and this is the reason why she's just had a stroke. My mother's gone from a quiet hospital to a noisy ward again. Don't get me wrong the nurse's there seem to try their best but she should be in a quiet place with rehabilitation .

All I've ever asked for is for her to be tried on a measured withdrawal so she can hopefully come back home again but it's like getting blood out of a stone with them. We can't afford a care home so there's not much point in looking for one. I was just wondering if there's any cheap alternatives even for a few times a week and my father's not much help so it's pointless talking to him at the moment. If I had my own place I'd taker her out instantly. It would be hard but I'd do anything to get these doctors dealing with her there out of my mothers life and try and find a sympathetic doctor.

Seashell, you can't just assume that a SW will probably say 'it's the dementia and nothing to do with the meds'. Try speaking to one. Get as many people involved as you can;DOLS people/MP/PALS.

A cheaper alternative would be for your Mum to go home and attend daycare but there is a huge problem with that-your Dad has already said he wouldn't be able to cope with your Mum at home. You don't appear to be listening to him. Carers have to be listened to or they could become ill themselves.

You say that you couldn't afford a CH but it wouldn't be you paying. It would be your Mum if self funding or the LA with pension contributions from your Mum. This has already been discussed at length and I feel that you are not listening to the advice given. We are going round in circles.

I really feel unable to give any more advice when you persist on trying to find a cheap alternative to a CH. I strongly feel that is your only realistic option.

 

[notsogooddtr]

Seashell,who administered the massive ovedose?I understood your mother was in a nursing home before the assessment centre,why was she living in a nursing home?Why do you think you are right and everyone else is wrong?Why do you believe only you have your mother's best interests at heart?Why do you think your father doesn't.People with dementia don't get better,symptoms may improve,usually with the right medication but the outcome is still inevitable.If your mother came home who would look after her?And what about your father,is he in good health?I think you said you live with him,does he not have a say in this?You seem unable or unwilling to listen to any point of view that doesn't chime with what you think or what you want.No NHS institution wants to keep a patient longer than necessary,it costs too much for a start.You said that your father pays them £30.00 per week,what for?If you really think the doctors have an ulterior and sinister motive go to your MP or the press.But what I would do initially is speak to the people looking after her,ask questions and listen to their answers.I'd start with why is mum still here and what are you hoping to achieve?

 

[Saffie]

I know the NHS is stretched (probably because of government cuts and creeping privatisation even though they deny it) but elderly care like this should be one of the top priorities for the NHS and people shouldn't have to sell their's or their parents houses. I bet someone's making money somewhere.

Apart from the obvious facts about prioritising health care needs which have already been addressed, why should people not sell their houses if they are no longer living in them? More to the point, they are living elsewhere and that has to be paid for somehow just as it would be in their own home. It is their house and their care.
However, this would not apply to you anyway as your father is still living in the home so it will be disregarded when - or seemingly if - your mother goes into a nursing home.

I think you are a bit confused about how a nursing home for your mother would be funded, which is a bit strange if she has already been a resident in one and I think it would help you to have contact with Social Services as other have suggested. Social workers, although sometimes viewed negatively, can be very helpful.

 

[Jessbow]

I want to try and find a doctor who wants to help her get better and not write her off like the ones dealing with her constantly do.
Dementia doesn't get better, it gets worse, in total random unpredictable steps

My mother ended up in the assessment centre because of a massive overdose of tablets.
administerd by...........?

As for the Simvastatin I take it you know for sure it reduces the risk of strokes?
Yes , its a blood thinner. It helps prevent blood clots. Clots cause strokes

All I can say from my experience is that it made her more confused, her memory became worse and she became more and more agitated. So much so that I feared she'd have a stroke.
confusion and agitation don't cause strokes

after I pestered the consultant to lower it she became better and actually put a stone in weight back on. Maybe it does help some people but if that was supposed to reduce the incidence of strokes with my mother then I'm the tooth fairy.
Why was she put on it then in the first place?


And it's not just on Google. There's been many stories in the newspapers about it for years.

And yes I am justified in being angry. My mother's life (and mine) has been ruined by these people and their so called 'helpful' medication over the past few years. The dementia drug she was put on caused her to have seizures in the first place.

Which drug was that then? The drug that caused the seizures

 

[Saffie]

Half right Jessbow. Statins can reduce the chance of strokes but not by thinning the blood but by reducing the amount of cholesterol the liver produces which furs up artery walls, hindering the flow of blood and of course causing clots too. Aspirin thins the blood unless the need for Warfarin or Heparin is indicated. I am on both statins and aspirins.

Seashell, I think you should start to try to approach those who are caring for your mother with an open mind. Difficult I realise for you when you are convinced everyone is against you but I really doubt that they are. You say you'll only speak with the consultant but obviously don't agree with him, so speak to others and they might give you the answers you want.
I repeat that you should also contact Social Services.
Is it perhaps that you will only be happy if your mother retiurns home? That applies to many of us here but sadly sometimes we have to accept that this would not be in the person's best interest, something your father seems to have accepted. I hope you will too eventually. We are trying to help here but it is difficult when we don't have the full picture.

 

[Jessbow]

Half right Jessbow. Statins can reduce the chance of strokes but not by thinning the blood but by reducing the amount of cholesterol the liver produces which furs up artery walls, hindering the flow of blood and of course causing clots too. Aspirin thins the blood unless the need for Warfarin or Heparin is indicated. I am on both statins and aspirins.

Happy to stand corrected- i'm on it - I have a blood clot. Its my clopidogrel that thins the blood

 

[LYN T]

Seashell,

This may be of interest to you. It mentions a complaints procedure and Advocacy

www.rethink.org

 

[Chemmy]

Is this the link you mentioned, Lyn?

https://www.rethink.org/about-us/commissioning-us/advocacy

I agree that getting an independent third party to take a look at this case would probably be of benefit to all parties.

 

[LYN T]

Is this the link you mentioned, Lyn?

https://www.rethink.org/about-us/commissioning-us/advocacy

I agree that getting an independent third party to take a look at this case would probably be of benefit to all parties.

Thanks Chemmy-me of little tech brain

I really do think that is the best route for Seashell to take. Otherwise she/he? will continue going round in circles.