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ChC funding for my father , does he stand a chance

Geordielady

Registered User
Jul 6, 2021
18
0
Hi I’m new to the forum ,
my father now age 83 and totally alone was admitted to hospital in Dec after falls possibly due to drink. He was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s in 2018. He was then sent to a care home which are supposedly trained in Alzheimer’s. I dont live near and haven’t seen the home.
He keeps asking to go back to hospital so they can put him to sleep and has done thus since dec 2920.
he is on the highest antidepressant and they’ve changed his meds to memantine. He is now being verbally and physically aggressive and has attacked both care home and nurse staff at the hospital. And deliberately urinated in the carers car on the way home from hospital. The CPN has said he needs one to one care but the home is understaffed.
after a week of hell and upping his sedatives the care him have just called to say they can’t cope and are looking for an EMI home for him.
would he come anywhere close to fit the criteria for CHC as he is self funding ?
oh also after a brain scan last week they said he’d had a stroke that I new nothing about , would this mean he likely has vascular dimentia as well as Alzheimer’s , would they not have been able to diagnose this from his scan or do they not bother to pinpoint once the Alzheime diagnosis was made in 2018
 

Geordielady

Registered User
Jul 6, 2021
18
0
No harrm in applying, but i'd say it was unlikely. he'd qualify.

he clearly needs caring for , but does he need qualified nursing care?
That’s what I don’t understand I thought CHC is not just nursing it is healthcare including his mental health ... he needs a place where there is someone who can prescribe and issue his meds , the current home have had the doctor or mental health nurse out nearly every day for the last week or so, also mental health when he has been suicidal since December and no amount of meds are making a difference, then there’s his unpredictable behaviour which is violent ... and is more than a normal care home supposedly specialising in dimentia can cope with . Also CPN said he needed one to one care ....
has anyone else been in a similar situation
 

Duggies-girl

Registered User
Sep 6, 2017
2,723
0
Hi @Geordielady we did have a member on here who managed to get CHC for her father because he needed constant watching. I remember that he escaped his care home by getting out of the window and was a danger to himself. I don't know if she still posts but perhaps someone will remember her name. Her posts may be of interest to you. I will see if I can find them and put a link on here.
 

Duggies-girl

Registered User
Sep 6, 2017
2,723
0
@Geordielady this is the link for the CHC thread, there is a lot of it but you might find something useful.


The poster I was thinking of was @Elle3 If she is still about she will get a note saying that I have mentioned her.

We got CHC for my dad but he was in the last weeks of his life and it was neither here or there really. The hospice applied for it as dad needed care in his home.
 

Geordielady

Registered User
Jul 6, 2021
18
0
Hi @Geordielady we did have a member on here who managed to get CHC for her father because he needed constant watching. I remember that he escaped his care home by getting out of the window and was a danger to himself. I don't know if she still posts but perhaps someone will remember her name. Her posts may be of interest to you. I will see if I can find them and put a link on here.
Thank you , he is breaking out of the fire doors at his current home trelling the carers he needs to go to hospital (he thinks they can put him to sleep)
 

Andy54

Registered User
Sep 24, 2020
59
0
My wife moved into residential care (specialist dementia care) in April, partially funded by the local authority. Both her social worker and community mental health nurse felt that she should qualify for CHC funding. Social services handled the application for this without requiring any involvement from me. D had been at the home for six weeks when the assessment meeting took place (I was invited to attend) by which time the home had amassed the evidence needed.
The application was approved, the deciding criteria seems to be D's need for one to one support and supervision and her communication difficulties.
 

Elle3

Registered User
Jun 30, 2016
663
0
@Duggies-girl , yes I'm still around as I occasionally pop on to see how things are going with a few people.

Hi @Geordielady, Duggies-girl is correct I managed to get CHC funding for my dad due to his unpredictable, challenging and sometimes aggressive behaviour and his lack of understanding and inability to communicate due to his advanced dementia. My dad escaped from his first care home too, Police and staff found him about 5 miles away from the home, so he was asked to leave as they just couldn't cope with him.

From what you have said about your father, it does sound like he has a very good chance of getting CHC. My advice would be if you haven't already got one, try to get a Social worker on board, my dad's Social worker and the EMI care home were both very helpful in applying and supporting the application for CHC. My second piece of advice would be to start documenting all evidence past and going forward to support your case. If you haven't already found a new care home for him, try to find out if they are experienced with looking after people with challenging behaviour and they have experience with applying for CHC. Fortunately, it was the care home that first mentioned CHC to me and provided me with some documentation to help formulate our case and they said they would help by keeping the required records and information in line with the criteria.

Advice from the Social worker and the care home was to allow my dad to 'settle' into his new care home before starting the CHC application process. This was about 4-6 weeks, this ensured they fully understood my dads needs and also had chance to already gather evidence.

The SW did the first assessment to check if he would qualify, before being referred. I can't remember exactly but she said once she does the referral the CHC have approximately 21 days to do the assessment.

On the day of the assessment, the SW couldn't attend but she still provided her evidence a couple of days prior to the meeting with the CHC team. At the meeting at the care home, in attendance was 2 people from the CHC, myself and the care home nurse, my dad also sat in but this wasn't really necessary, he just saw me going into a room and followed and got aggressive when someone tried to steer him away (quite opportune really).

They go through each of the criteria and between the care home nurse and myself we provided the evidence and after each one a grading was agreed. Luckily we didn't have to dispute any of the gradings. At the end of the meeting I was told they would be recommending the award of the funding to the panel and it would be a few days before I would get this in writing.

Just for info, this is how my dad scored:
Cognition - severe
Communication - high
Behaviour - severe
Continence: moderate
Drugs: High
Psychological & Emotional needs: Low
Mobility: No needs
Nutrition: Low
Skin: Moderate
Breathing: No Needs
Altered state of consciousness: no needs

The Cognition, Communication and Behaviour scores are what got him the funding and the report mentioned that he required specialist care based on his unpredictability and could be a danger to himself and others, including staff and other residents.

I think many people apply for CHC funding but don't get it even though the person with Dementia/Alzheimer's is very ill and may have mobility issues, because they require no additional, specialised care and their behaviour can be predictable and managed.

Good luck, if you require any further advice or support, I would be happy for you to private message me.

Take care.
Elle3
 

Geordielady

Registered User
Jul 6, 2021
18
0
My wife moved into residential care (specialist dementia care) in April, partially funded by the local authority. Both her social worker and community mental health nurse felt that she should qualify for CHC funding. Social services handled the application for this without requiring any involvement from me. D had been at the home for six weeks when the assessment meeting took place (I was invited to attend) by which time the home had amassed the evidence needed.
The application was approved, the deciding criteria seems to be D's need for one to one support and supervision and her communication difficulties.
Thank you for this reply
 

Geordielady

Registered User
Jul 6, 2021
18
0
@Duggies-girl , yes I'm still around as I occasionally pop on to see how things are going with a few people.

Hi @Geordielady, Duggies-girl is correct I managed to get CHC funding for my dad due to his unpredictable, challenging and sometimes aggressive behaviour and his lack of understanding and inability to communicate due to his advanced dementia. My dad escaped from his first care home too, Police and staff found him about 5 miles away from the home, so he was asked to leave as they just couldn't cope with him.

From what you have said about your father, it does sound like he has a very good chance of getting CHC. My advice would be if you haven't already got one, try to get a Social worker on board, my dad's Social worker and the EMI care home were both very helpful in applying and supporting the application for CHC. My second piece of advice would be to start documenting all evidence past and going forward to support your case. If you haven't already found a new care home for him, try to find out if they are experienced with looking after people with challenging behaviour and they have experience with applying for CHC. Fortunately, it was the care home that first mentioned CHC to me and provided me with some documentation to help formulate our case and they said they would help by keeping the required records and information in line with the criteria.

Advice from the Social worker and the care home was to allow my dad to 'settle' into his new care home before starting the CHC application process. This was about 4-6 weeks, this ensured they fully understood my dads needs and also had chance to already gather evidence.

The SW did the first assessment to check if he would qualify, before being referred. I can't remember exactly but she said once she does the referral the CHC have approximately 21 days to do the assessment.

On the day of the assessment, the SW couldn't attend but she still provided her evidence a couple of days prior to the meeting with the CHC team. At the meeting at the care home, in attendance was 2 people from the CHC, myself and the care home nurse, my dad also sat in but this wasn't really necessary, he just saw me going into a room and followed and got aggressive when someone tried to steer him away (quite opportune really).

They go through each of the criteria and between the care home nurse and myself we provided the evidence and after each one a grading was agreed. Luckily we didn't have to dispute any of the gradings. At the end of the meeting I was told they would be recommending the award of the funding to the panel and it would be a few days before I would get this in writing.

Just for info, this is how my dad scored:
Cognition - severe
Communication - high
Behaviour - severe
Continence: moderate
Drugs: High
Psychological & Emotional needs: Low
Mobility: No needs
Nutrition: Low
Skin: Moderate
Breathing: No Needs
Altered state of consciousness: no needs

The Cognition, Communication and Behaviour scores are what got him the funding and the report mentioned that he required specialist care based on his unpredictability and could be a danger to himself and others, including staff and other residents.

I think many people apply for CHC funding but don't get it even though the person with Dementia/Alzheimer's is very ill and may have mobility issues, because they require no additional, specialised care and their behaviour can be predictable and managed.

Good luck, if you require any further advice or support, I would be happy for you to private message me.

Take care.
Elle3
Thank you elle3
things have gone down hill rapidly as the police were called to his home yesterday. The care hime can’t cope the lanzoprofal isn’t touching the sides , he’s trying to climb out if windows, smashed up the home office and hurt staff again. We are waiting for emi nursing homes to assess if they can cope with him
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
3,694
0
West Hertfordshire
Sounds like sectioning might be a god idea - get him the specialist help he needs AND its funded.
Sounds scarey but can be the best thing in the long run
 

Geordielady

Registered User
Jul 6, 2021
18
0
Sounds like sectioning might be a god idea - get him the specialist help he needs AND its funded.
Sounds scarey but can be the best thing in the long run
Social worker told me he doesn’t meet the criteria for sectioning as there is a new care plan in place to find him an emi nursing home. I argued he was in danger now and he told me its the care homes responsibility as they said they would manage him until a new home was found . They ended up giving him the max sedation meds allowed .... he being assessed by a home today
 

Geordielady

Registered User
Jul 6, 2021
18
0
@Duggies-girl , yes I'm still around as I occasionally pop on to see how things are going with a few people.

Hi @Geordielady, Duggies-girl is correct I managed to get CHC funding for my dad due to his unpredictable, challenging and sometimes aggressive behaviour and his lack of understanding and inability to communicate due to his advanced dementia. My dad escaped from his first care home too, Police and staff found him about 5 miles away from the home, so he was asked to leave as they just couldn't cope with him.

From what you have said about your father, it does sound like he has a very good chance of getting CHC. My advice would be if you haven't already got one, try to get a Social worker on board, my dad's Social worker and the EMI care home were both very helpful in applying and supporting the application for CHC. My second piece of advice would be to start documenting all evidence past and going forward to support your case. If you haven't already found a new care home for him, try to find out if they are experienced with looking after people with challenging behaviour and they have experience with applying for CHC. Fortunately, it was the care home that first mentioned CHC to me and provided me with some documentation to help formulate our case and they said they would help by keeping the required records and information in line with the criteria.

Advice from the Social worker and the care home was to allow my dad to 'settle' into his new care home before starting the CHC application process. This was about 4-6 weeks, this ensured they fully understood my dads needs and also had chance to already gather evidence.

The SW did the first assessment to check if he would qualify, before being referred. I can't remember exactly but she said once she does the referral the CHC have approximately 21 days to do the assessment.

On the day of the assessment, the SW couldn't attend but she still provided her evidence a couple of days prior to the meeting with the CHC team. At the meeting at the care home, in attendance was 2 people from the CHC, myself and the care home nurse, my dad also sat in but this wasn't really necessary, he just saw me going into a room and followed and got aggressive when someone tried to steer him away (quite opportune really).

They go through each of the criteria and between the care home nurse and myself we provided the evidence and after each one a grading was agreed. Luckily we didn't have to dispute any of the gradings. At the end of the meeting I was told they would be recommending the award of the funding to the panel and it would be a few days before I would get this in writing.

Just for info, this is how my dad scored:
Cognition - severe
Communication - high
Behaviour - severe
Continence: moderate
Drugs: High
Psychological & Emotional needs: Low
Mobility: No needs
Nutrition: Low
Skin: Moderate
Breathing: No Needs
Altered state of consciousness: no needs

The Cognition, Communication and Behaviour scores are what got him the funding and the report mentioned that he required specialist care based on his unpredictability and could be a danger to himself and others, including staff and other residents.

I think many people apply for CHC funding but don't get it even though the person with Dementia/Alzheimer's is very ill and may have mobility issues, because they require no additional, specialised care and their behaviour can be predictable and managed.

Good luck, if you require any further advice or support, I would be happy for you to private message me.

Take care.
Elle3
Thank again elle3, im waiting for a call from social svs to update me where they are going to place him...
 

Elle3

Registered User
Jun 30, 2016
663
0
Thank you elle3
things have gone down hill rapidly as the police were called to his home yesterday. The care hime can’t cope the lanzoprofal isn’t touching the sides , he’s trying to climb out if windows, smashed up the home office and hurt staff again. We are waiting for emi nursing homes to assess if they can cope with him
So sorry to hear that, it sounds like he isn't on the correct medication. I just tried looking up the medication you mentioned but couldn't find it as you spelled it, but found Lanzoprozal but that doesn't sound right as it seems an anti-acid type medication?

My dad was also on a mission sometimes to destroy the home and escape and would hit people if he felt threatened or they got too close to him. He was put on Risperidone which did help calm him and he was also given Lorazepam when he wouldn't settle during the night. Both worked well even though there were still incidents.

If you find the correct care home, like I did, what they do and how they care for the residents is amazing. I saw all sorts of really bad behaviour in the care home my dad was in, they specialised in it, it was a small dedicated unit specially for challenging behaviour with an higher than average staff ratio to residents. When my dad moved in there there was only three other residents and at most they only had 12 residents. They took a lot of time to get to know the residents and were aware of triggers but obviously incidents still happened but they managed it well.

I really hope you manage to find a solution quickly, I really feel for you and your poor father.
 

Geordielady

Registered User
Jul 6, 2021
18
0
So they can’t rehome him until next week. Care home want him out . Social services have said there’s nothing more they can do till a place is available.
mental health crisis team told me it’s down to social services as a new package has been put in place (even though he’s not rehomed yet)
so now social services have told the home to call the ambulance on his next kick off and have him sent to hospital.
I knew our care system was broken but I’m shocked and angry and upset at him being treated like this 😢😤😱
oh his meds are
lorazipam 0:5 4times a day they gave extra yesterday
aripiprazole
memantine
and he was on max anti depression meds but I don’t know if he’s still on them , social worker couldn’t tell me
 

Sarasa

Volunteer Host
Apr 13, 2018
3,539
0
Although being sent to hospital sounds drastic, if your father ends up somewhere where they can properly sort out his medication it might be a good thing. It's the dementia and not your dad that is causing him to behave in the way he is.
 

Geordielady

Registered User
Jul 6, 2021
18
0
Although being sent to hospital sounds drastic, if your father ends up somewhere where they can properly sort out his medication it might be a good thing. It's the dementia and not your dad that is causing him to behave in the way he is.
I still haven’t come to terms with loosing him to this disease, things have just moved so fast since Christmas Eve . It doesn’t help he’s the only member of my of my small family left(mum and brother both dead) and I have noeone who new the real him still left alive to talk to also I feel guilty as we had a volatile relationship as he was a headstrong character
 

nita

Registered User
Dec 30, 2011
2,175
0
Essex
Lorazepam is a minor tranquilliser. I'm not medically trained but I'm not sure it is enough to keep him calm. Has a psychiatrist/specialist looked at his drugs?
 

Geordielady

Registered User
Jul 6, 2021
18
0
Lorazepam is a minor tranquilliser. I'm not medically trained but I'm not sure it is enough to keep him calm. Has a psychiatrist/specialist looked at his drugs?
Doctor and CPN have both seen him .... the meds are making no difference. Just had another call they are waiting for an ambulance to take him for a medical check instead of mental health check, but the care home told me they won’t accept him back
 

Sarasa

Volunteer Host
Apr 13, 2018
3,539
0
So sorry that your dad has ended up going to hospital @Geordielady . I do hope that something is found that helps your dad and that he ends up in a care home that can meet his needs.
I hope you are feeling OK. It must be tough not having other family members to help support you through all this.
 

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