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CHC (Continuing Healthcare) support thread

DesperateofDevon

Registered User
Jul 7, 2019
2,742
In my experience, it is absolutely no use expecting the care home to sort out CHC assessments. At best, the system is unbelievably slow and nothing happens without you making a noise!
How sad is that? the system is so flawed that those at their most vulnerable are continually let down because the care home don’t fulfill their duty of care!

I’ve asked the care home to do an assessment, they sent me to the GP surgery. The District Nurse then speaks to the care home who say no nothing wrong here! Even when end of life care/ palliative care/ OT & SALT assessments say otherwise- the care home & district nurses alternative reality of the situation is arrogant & unbelievable. So safeguarding is now under investigation & yet more issues are uncovered! Meanwhile Dads taken off his medications & on morphine patches & liquid !

now Dads social worker is questioning the validity of the assessments by professionals according to what the home have told her & the district nurse!

I don’t know wether to laugh or cry!

to quote Trump “ no collusion here!”
 

Abbey82

Registered User
Jun 12, 2018
94
We’re just going through this with my Dad, although his funding will come under the 117 aftercare service as he was Sectioned under Section 3, 2 weeks ago (previously section 2 in September before coming home) He’s not allowed to return home now so has to go into secure residential nursing home, the SW has told us it will all be fully under and 70% is through the CHC NHS fund and 30% from local social services. It will be interesting to see how long the process takes, although the secure MH unit he is in at the moment are treating him well and know him!
 

LocalResident

Registered User
Jul 21, 2013
14
I would agree that partial CHC funding does not exist in theory. In our case, there was such a delay following assessment that the local CCG director made a discretionary partial award as some form of appeasement. I guess that in doing so, the normal rules do not apply and the offsetting is probably also a discretionary decision aimed purely at reducing the cost when they had the opportunity to do so.
Reply from LocalResident: Of course I don't understand your specific case, however it appears that the CCG might not have followed the correct procedures etc. [NHS England/CHC Dept. might be interested to hear about that].
The rules as I understand them - are after submitting an appeal, there is a Local Review MEETING to discus things. Then the appeals process continues with a Local Review PANEL.
In my mother's case - the DST document was so shoddy (full of errors etc.) I submitted a SEPARATE complaint. It's my view that if the document is wrong, the complaint should ideally be done at the start of the Appeals Process - and definitely at the Local Review Meeting stage.

Please bear in mind that for several different reasons an appeal might 'fail' or not go ahead - perhaps be withdrawn, or become no longer applicable due to particular circumstances.
That is why I think a separate complaint about a poorly written DST may be extremely useful.

Remember Beacon can provide assistance.
 

Flavelle

Registered User
Jun 20, 2017
48
My husband took a call from a very flustered Dads SW yesterday ! I guess the realisation that time frames had not been met & the fact that Dads medical needs were definitely not being met might mean the next appraisal at work might not go to well!
I’m glad Hubby took the call, my calm, calculating business minded hubby who let the social worker know in polite terms that if we had sought help from the GP - OT etc as the care home wouldn’t on Dads behalf if this upset her processes since we had already informed her of the issues & she herself raised safeguarding issues this was not of his or our concern!

our duty of care to our PWD was the first & foremost & only concern. If the SW didn’t act on the information given to her by us - that’s her problem.

our repeat requests to the home for assessments & CHC funding have been received with scorn - leading to safeguarding. Having repeatedly tried to get Dad CHC assessment done I have now contacted the Head of Social services & requested that things be sorted out. safeguarding raised in September!! We are almost in December & the SW & home block us all the way - even to the point of denying the validity of the OT assessment????

CHC funding isn’t always granted but it is a legal right to be assessed no matter if it creates more paperwork!!

Hope this system changes soon!
My husband took a call from a very flustered Dads SW yesterday ! I guess the realisation that time frames had not been met & the fact that Dads medical needs were definitely not being met might mean the next appraisal at work might not go to well!
I’m glad Hubby took the call, my calm, calculating business minded hubby who let the social worker know in polite terms that if we had sought help from the GP - OT etc as the care home wouldn’t on Dads behalf if this upset her processes since we had already informed her of the issues & she herself raised safeguarding issues this was not of his or our concern!

our duty of care to our PWD was the first & foremost & only concern. If the SW didn’t act on the information given to her by us - that’s her problem.

our repeat requests to the home for assessments & CHC funding have been received with scorn - leading to safeguarding. Having repeatedly tried to get Dad CHC assessment done I have now contacted the Head of Social services & requested that things be sorted out. safeguarding raised in September!! We are almost in December & the SW & home block us all the way - even to the point of denying the validity of the OT assessment????

CHC funding isn’t always granted but it is a legal right to be assessed no matter if it creates more paperwork!!

Hope this system changes soon!

I am so glad to hear the grief caused by the trouble their incompetence created has rebounded back. Hope you’re OK.
In a more minor way back in May my Dad has a fall & we knew he’d broken himself somewhere due to how he was moving. I called our doc, who is great, and then went to the local hospital to get him checked over. Once there I led him the short distance into the lobby, with a frame, issuing clear blunt instructions and repeating them, as you do. When I turned round and saw the expression on the receptionists face I knew I had been judged, so unfortunately the next hour and a half we spent there I was subjected to the usual messed up verbal multiple choice to assess my state of mind. My poor Dad wasn’t diagnosed...they just said his gait was due to the seriousness of his dementia. Well of course it wasn’t! Sadly it took my son a further visit to our doctor & then driving him into a further afield hospital to get the X-ray which I said we needed in the first place to work out he had a fractured pelvis. Poor old guy, shame carers are often treated so shoddily.
I have filled in a feedback form at the hospital...no response of course...no apology! However both Oldies are back with our 3 generational family...& driving me bonkers...again. Any views on chasing this up anyone? BTW this is our 3rd year of dealing with this and no social worker. I insisted in February we needed an interview so we got one with a random SW but she just wrote down all the weird delusional answers that M&D said, though I did give her the facts. What do you reckon anyone? Are we best off without them?
 

DesperateofDevon

Registered User
Jul 7, 2019
2,742
I am so glad to hear the grief caused by the trouble their incompetence created has rebounded back. Hope you’re OK.
In a more minor way back in May my Dad has a fall & we knew he’d broken himself somewhere due to how he was moving. I called our doc, who is great, and then went to the local hospital to get him checked over. Once there I led him the short distance into the lobby, with a frame, issuing clear blunt instructions and repeating them, as you do. When I turned round and saw the expression on the receptionists face I knew I had been judged, so unfortunately the next hour and a half we spent there I was subjected to the usual messed up verbal multiple choice to assess my state of mind. My poor Dad wasn’t diagnosed...they just said his gait was due to the seriousness of his dementia. Well of course it wasn’t! Sadly it took my son a further visit to our doctor & then driving him into a further afield hospital to get the X-ray which I said we needed in the first place to work out he had a fractured pelvis. Poor old guy, shame carers are often treated so shoddily.
I have filled in a feedback form at the hospital...no response of course...no apology! However both Oldies are back with our 3 generational family...& driving me bonkers...again. Any views on chasing this up anyone? BTW this is our 3rd year of dealing with this and no social worker. I insisted in February we needed an interview so we got one with a random SW but she just wrote down all the weird delusional answers that M&D said, though I did give her the facts. What do you reckon anyone? Are we best off without them?
oh my goodness! shocking!
Seriously I’d either ring the AS helpline or email them for some advice.
I have found this invaluable & without the support on TP I’d have been floundering more!
Think it’s lovely that you are a family unit.
Asked Aged Mother recently why she didn’t think about moving nearer her family years ago when they moved
“ it didn’t cross my mind”

umm.... that told me!
 

LocalResident

Registered User
Jul 21, 2013
14
After applying for NHS CHC and after attending the meeting, you'll receive the actual DST document …
[This might not be sent to you automatically - you might need to request a copy]
… I cannot stress how important it is to check through it very carefully - be 'forensic'!
Look for errors, inaccuracies, omissions, parts that need to be clarified, etc. etc.
You'll require answers to questions.
I firmly believe - especially if the DST is unfavourable and you intend to submit an appeal, you should also make a completely SEPARATE complaint to the NHS Trust/CCG about the CONTENT of the document.
If you do appeal you will be able to raise your concerns about the quality of the document at a Local Review Meeting, however it could be, for a numbers of unforeseeable reasons, the appeal does not go ahead, is no longer applicable etc. this will mean unless you made a separate complaint your concerns about the content of the document will probably not be dealt with.
It's important that the quality of these DST documents are improved. You should also raise concerns with your local HealthWatch. It's hard work. Best of luck.
 

Herdy

New member
Dec 28, 2019
3
Hi, would really welcome any advice. My dad has advanced dementia, last year (October 18) I made enquiries about CHC with a local Social Worker. A checklist was completed at my request and they agreed that a full assessment would take place. Despite lots of chasing up by myself the assessment did not actually take place until 5 months later, so I wasn’t at all surprised then when the decision went against us.

I appealed, sent everything to the local team, they acknowledged receipt of the appeal. I’ve heard nothing since, the 3 month deadline has now passed. I wondered if anyone else has been in this situation and what I should do next. I feel like I’ve spent the last year banging my head against a brick wall.
 

kindred

Registered User
Apr 8, 2018
2,508
Hi, would really welcome any advice. My dad has advanced dementia, last year (October 18) I made enquiries about CHC with a local Social Worker. A checklist was completed at my request and they agreed that a full assessment would take place. Despite lots of chasing up by myself the assessment did not actually take place until 5 months later, so I wasn’t at all surprised then when the decision went against us.

I appealed, sent everything to the local team, they acknowledged receipt of the appeal. I’ve heard nothing since, the 3 month deadline has now passed. I wondered if anyone else has been in this situation and what I should do next. I feel like I’ve spent the last year banging my head against a brick wall.
My advice will sound hard but I have heard of these situations before and the following two things have 'worked' - contact your MP or/and get an independent social worker (not expensive - google it for your area).
warmest, Kindred.
 

Herdy

New member
Dec 28, 2019
3
Thank you Kindred. I did contact the local MP but, other than asking me for progress reports, they didn’t appear to have helped in any practical sense. Unfortunately they lost their seat in the recent election so I guess I’ll have to start again with the new MP. It just seems very unfair that I am doing everything by the book and yet the people who are employed to carry out the CHC work seem to be able to do as they like.
 

Herdy

New member
Dec 28, 2019
3
Thank you Shedrech for the welcome and also the link to the helpline. I will give them a ring.
 

Holdingittogether

New member
Dec 29, 2019
7
"It explains the checklist which is the first hurdle to overcome and would normally be used by a professional with, one would hope, the help of someone who knows the person well, to see whether there seemed to be a clear case for a person to be formally assessed for CHC funding..
Hi Nitram and all
In my explorations on other matters I’ve just come across CHC. Mums residential care is currently part funded by local authority with Mums pension and Guarantee Credit making up the rest. Mum has dementia and Alzheimer’s and also has long-standing mobility problems due to hip and knee problems, plus a tendency to leg ulcers. She’s now permanently in a wheelchair and has to be hoisted into bed, bath, chair. She falls out of bed quite often and suffers with incontinence.
Do you think an assessment for CHC would be worthwhile?
Thank you.
 

BobinLondon

New member
Sep 27, 2020
3
Hi All, I have just joined this thread as I have an assessment coming up for my 96 year old Mother. She has full time carer and cannot move by herself or feed herself. I am starting getting the info I think I need together but I was thinking of getting a professional to advise me on how to do it effectively. I know about the bigger companies like Beacon, Compass etc but I am a bit wary of the paid services. Does anyone know, or has used individuals, they could recommend who offer a service to help prepare for an assessment? Alternatively are there any examples of good portfolios of evidence that I could follow? Or has anyone had experience of the no win no pay solicitors? Would be really grateful for info as we probably only have a couple of weeks to prepare. Best wishes, Bob
 

LocalResident

Registered User
Jul 21, 2013
14
Hi All, I have just joined this thread as I have an assessment coming up for my 96 year old Mother. She has full time carer and cannot move by herself or feed herself. I am starting getting the info I think I need together but I was thinking of getting a professional to advise me on how to do it effectively. I know about the bigger companies like Beacon, Compass etc but I am a bit wary of the paid services. Does anyone know, or has used individuals, they could recommend who offer a service to help prepare for an assessment? Alternatively are there any examples of good portfolios of evidence that I could follow? Or has anyone had experience of the no win no pay solicitors? Would be really grateful for info as we probably only have a couple of weeks to prepare. Best wishes, Bob
Hi Bob,
I'm unable to answer your specific question. What follows is some general advice:
(a) Beacon provide about an hour of free telephone advice.
(b) When you do receive the DST document (which might say not eligible for NHS CHC), do two SEPARATE things
(i) Examine the document forensically. Look for and list all errors, inaccuracies, omissions, places where more clarity is needed etc. etc. and make a formal complaint about the CONTENT of the document - it might be a shoddy piece of work!
(ii) assuming 'not eligible', make an appeal - which could included the details in (i) .
The reason for this is because the appeal (for many unforeseen reasons) might no longer be applicable.
I had the problem of a shoddy document 'mixed up' with an appeal - which didn't go ahead.
NHS Trusts and CCGs must improve the preparation of these DST documents - I had a case referred to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman. Good luck.
 

Lirene

Registered User
Sep 15, 2019
211
As a number of you maybe aware, I tried and failed a numerous times to obtain CHC for my husband whilst he was in hospital. All the nursing staff etc,. were extremely surprised and could not understand why he was refused, they had never had a case refused before and nursing homes were refusing to take him as his needs were too complex! However, I am now at the Appeals stage and would recommend everyone to appeal against decisions made against our loved ones. I will admit it is not an easy thing to undertake but please persevere and you can do it yourself. I have kept my MP advised of all developments and he has written on my behalf a couple of times. Even at this early stage CHC Appeals have made mistakes so please check everything. We must continue the fight for those who cannot. My prayers for everyone xx
 

BobinLondon

New member
Sep 27, 2020
3
Hi Bob,
I'm unable to answer your specific question. What follows is some general advice:
(a) Beacon provide about an hour of free telephone advice.
(b) When you do receive the DST document (which might say not eligible for NHS CHC), do two SEPARATE things
(i) Examine the document forensically. Look for and list all errors, inaccuracies, omissions, places where more clarity is needed etc. etc. and make a formal complaint about the CONTENT of the document - it might be a shoddy piece of work!
(ii) assuming 'not eligible', make an appeal - which could included the details in (i) .
The reason for this is because the appeal (for many unforeseen reasons) might no longer be applicable.
I had the problem of a shoddy document 'mixed up' with an appeal - which didn't go ahead.
NHS Trusts and CCGs must improve the preparation of these DST documents - I had a case referred to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman. Good luck.
Hi Local Resident. Thanks for the advice. I was kind of hoping that we might get it from the DST but I know that is pretty unusual. Will certainly take your advice if we get into an appeal. Best wishes, Bob
 

BobinLondon

New member
Sep 27, 2020
3
Hi Bob,
I'm unable to answer your specific question. What follows is some general advice:
(a) Beacon provide about an hour of free telephone advice.
(b) When you do receive the DST document (which might say not eligible for NHS CHC), do two SEPARATE things
(i) Examine the document forensically. Look for and list all errors, inaccuracies, omissions, places where more clarity is needed etc. etc. and make a formal complaint about the CONTENT of the document - it might be a shoddy piece of work!
(ii) assuming 'not eligible', make an appeal - which could included the details in (i) .
The reason for this is because the appeal (for many unforeseen reasons) might no longer be applicable.
I had the problem of a shoddy document 'mixed up' with an appeal - which didn't go ahead.
NHS Trusts and CCGs must improve the preparation of these DST documents - I had a case referred to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman. Good luck.
Hi Local Resident. Thanks for the advice. I was kind of hoping that we might get it from the DST but I know that is pretty unusual. Will certainly take your advice if we get into an appeal. Best wishes, Bob
As a number of you maybe aware, I tried and failed a numerous times to obtain CHC for my husband whilst he was in hospital. All the nursing staff etc,. were extremely surprised and could not understand why he was refused, they had never had a case refused before and nursing homes were refusing to take him as his needs were too complex! However, I am now at the Appeals stage and would recommend everyone to appeal against decisions made against our loved ones. I will admit it is not an easy thing to undertake but please persevere and you can do it yourself. I have kept my MP advised of all developments and he has written on my behalf a couple of times. Even at this early stage CHC Appeals have made mistakes so please check everything. We must continue the fight for those who cannot. My prayers for everyone xx
HI Lirene. thanks for the info. I hope your case goes well. Best wishes, Bob
 

Jamie Wilson

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
4
London, UK
For those of you not aware, there is judicial review pending on CHC payments (it is being crowdfunded by the ex head of UK nuclear deterrent) who is claiming that £5bn of CHC payments have been refused unfairly. The reality is this matter is postcode lottery. The approach will vary depending on the CCG and area of the country.