CHC (Continuing Healthcare) support thread

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by stanleypj, Sep 22, 2015.

  1. Elle3

    Elle3 Registered User

    Jun 30, 2016
    602
    It is disgraceful and I feel very sad for everyone who hasn't been able to get it, especially those that have gone through numerous appeals.

    We must have been very lucky to get a very understanding Assessment team, they even said to me, due to the nature of Dementia and the fact dads Communication and Cognitive skills will never improve but get worse, it is very unlikely that funding would be removed. I am sure though at some point this may change so I'm never going to assume it won't.
     
  2. Elle3

    Elle3 Registered User

    Jun 30, 2016
    602
    Can anyone help me please regarding CHC funding?

    As I posted above my dad has just been awarded CHC funding, however I received a phone call yesterday from the CHC team questioning why dad was not in a Residential care home. As stated in the Assessment I explained that he was in a Residential home but had to be moved due to being too challenging for them to cope with and we had to pay for 121 agency care until we could find a more suitable care home. I was advised by SS to look for a Dementia+ unit as they have a smaller staff to resident ratio and are better equipped to deal with challenging residents.

    The CHC are now saying their funding can only meet some of the cost and that dad may have to move to a different care home or we could pay a third party top up of approx £450 per week to keep him in his current care home. I told them I couldn't afford to pay that. They said they are reluctant to move dad as he is so settled so the lady has gone away to talk to her Manager.

    I have since spoken to the lady at dads care home who deals with the finances and CHC funding and she has told me that it isn't classed as a third party to up fee, the extra cost can still be funded by dad. She said what happens is that the CHC pay for one part of his care and we have a separate contract (like self funding) for the additional care element.

    I'm not sure that this is right and to be honest I will wait for the CHC team to come back to me. But just in case it is, can anyone tell me what would happen when dads funds get to the LA limit of £24,250 is this still applicable with the CHC funding or is this something totally different? Would dad have to continue paying for the additional care element until his funds get down to zero and then what happens? Dad currently get AA and I'm aware this will stop, what happens to his state pension, does this stop also or does it continue?

    Sorry I'm probably thinking too deeply about this. I just assumed that the CHC would be funding the total amount of dads care, now it seems that it's not much different than if the LA was funding it.

    Thanks.
    Elle x
     
  3. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,615
    Male
    North Manchester
    Top up fees are not allowed for CHC funding.

    As there is an ever decreasing number of homes that will accept the CHC rate fudges are being made to enable residents to privately purchase 'extras' even if sometimes these 'extras' appear to be an essential element of the necessary care package.

    Financial assessment is not done for CHC funding

    You are effectively self funding for the 'extras', if funds run down to the upper limit and you ask for LA assistance they will say you should have moved your dad to a cheaper home which accepted the CHC rate and allow you to run the funds to zero.

    Your only argument is that moving your dad to a different home would not be in his best interests.
     
  4. lemonjuice

    lemonjuice Registered User

    Jun 15, 2016
    1,535
    England
    Makes you wonder if actually 'gaining' CHC Funding is worth it these days, if that is the case.

    £450 is a lot of 'extras'. o_O
     
  5. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,615
    Male
    North Manchester
    Is it possible to pay top-up fees for NHS continuing healthcare?
    No, it isn't possible to top up NHS continuing healthcare packages, like you can with local authority care packages.

    The only way that NHS continuing healthcare packages can be topped up privately is if you pay for additional private services on top of the services you get from the NHS. These private services should be provided by different staff and preferably in a different setting.


    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support/nhs-continuing-care/

    Note the crucial wording '....should be provided by different staff and preferably....'
     
  6. Elle3

    Elle3 Registered User

    Jun 30, 2016
    602
    Thank you @nitram for your reply, it seems such a minefield and so open to interpretation and I agree @lemonjuice i am beginning to wonder if it is worth it.

    The care home also advised that top up fees are not allowed with CHC funding, so I’m beginning to question if I heard the CHC person correctly, although I’m pretty certain that she did say third party top up.

    Also, to add to the confusion, the paperwork I got today from the CCG confirmed that dad was assessed eligible for funding and that all his care costs would be met and I don’t need to do anything. The letter was dated the 4th July, but I received this phone call yesterday on the 5th. Also, the assessment was all based on his need to be in a specialised Dementia unit due to his unpredictable and challenging behaviour, the Panels conclusion in the paperwork agreed with this too, but now they are saying they are not willing to pay for this element of it, just for Residential.
     
  7. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,615
    Male
    North Manchester
    #687 nitram, Jul 7, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
    They have to provide it but not necessarily in a home of your choice which charges more than they are prepared to pay, they are turning a blind eye to the rules and allowing you to make up the deficit.
    Beware that if, for whatever reason, you agree to this extra the home could increase it without any reference to the CGC.
    For the time being I would not pay anything to the home nor sign any agreement, I would also tell them to invoice the CGC for the full amount. Then wait and see what happens.

    There will only be a few homes that accept the CGC rate and they may not have vacancies, the CGC might prefer any vacancy is filled by residents whose relatives simply do not have the funds to pay any excess.
     
  8. lemonjuice

    lemonjuice Registered User

    Jun 15, 2016
    1,535
    England
    Seems good advice to me, especially as you have the letter
    stating they will pay all costs.
    I appreciate the 'trade-off' is that they may well place your father in another Home of their choice, though as nitram suggests finding one with a place available may be easier said than done.
     
  9. Elle3

    Elle3 Registered User

    Jun 30, 2016
    602
    Hi, I thought I’d add an update to my posts. The decision regarding full CHC funding for dad’s current care home was escalated to the Assistant Director of the CCG.

    I have finally had confirmation this week that the Assistant Director has agreed to pay the full funding for dad in his current care home. We don’t have to move him or pay for any ‘special extras’ which is such good news and a relief.

    Thank you for your support and advice,

    Elle x
     
  10. sixy74

    sixy74 Registered User

    Jul 4, 2018
    101
    #690 sixy74, Jul 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
    Hi All
    I’m another member after a bit of advice regarding NHS Continuous Healthcare. I’ve done quite a bit of research on the subject but would like your advice if that’s ok.
    Dad is being discharged to a care home on Thursday from our local hospital for 28 days respite paid for by our local council, after 28 days he will be re assessed and to be totally honest I suspect he will probably stay in the care home which I think will be partly funded by the council and dad’s pensions.
    Now the big question is do you guys think I should mention applying for CHC fundingor am I wasting everyone’s time. Dad has the following conditions and problems.
    He has Vascular Dementia with Parkinson’s.
    He has lost most of his mobility and needs at least two people to get him to the toilet , he suffers with leg pain due to nerve damage that was caused by a cholesterol tablet he was prescribed 10 years ago, he also has arthritis in his knee.
    He needs help with eating and drinking.
    He has no cognition
    He can’t really tell you what he needs
    He can be aggressive but then emotional
    He has had a heart bypass operation
    He has suffered a brain haemmorage
    He has had a heart attack
    He basically has to rely on others for everything.
    Do you think he has a chance or am I wasting our time
    He needs EMI care
     
  11. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    9,660
    Female
    South coast
    I believe that anyone leaving hospital should have a CHC assessment as part of the hospital discharge policy @sixy74 so I would just check that it is being done.
     
  12. Baz22

    Baz22 Registered User

    Dec 30, 2017
    44
    Male
    South West
    In Spite of my own continuing bad experience with CHC, I would still recommend you ask for a CHC assessment. Looking at what you have listed you should get it but the difference between "should" and "will" is a very large one. They should also consider a Fast Track Assessment but sadly these CHC people appear to be a law unto themselves. I still say ask for a CHC assessment and document everything.
     
  13. Theresalwaystomorrow

    Theresalwaystomorrow Registered User

    Dec 23, 2017
    347
    The forum is starting 3-4 how do I join in ?
     
  14. Baby Bunty

    Baby Bunty Registered User

    Jan 24, 2018
    297
    Hi..i have never applied for chc funding as i was under impression that dementia didnt come under that umbrella..mum had vascular dementia with touch off Alzheimer's ( still not sure what that means)..also blind..over 11 years ( diagnosed).most probably 2 year before that..so in total 13 years..mum been in CH for now 7 or so years now ; we moved her 3 years ago to a new home as wasnt happy with other....that was the last time i had any connect with social services ..cut to the chase ..roughly 8 weeks ago ..got a phone call out of the blue from social services..to say i was shocked was an understatement.. it was a courtesy call to ask if i was happy with my mum care..i explained yes i was ( good job as they didnt have any inpt or follow up at all.). I was more then happy..social worker then asked if he could come on check all care plans were update..ect..i said yes no problem..s/ w came a few days later and i met him..i explained how happy i was with CH..and gp and D/N..as mum is end stage classed as end of life and everyone was on board that mum will end her days at CH..he asked me was it ok to interview mum!!!!-..my response was good luck with that..5 mins later S/W came out and asked me as anyone suggested CHC funding to which i said no..he said straight away..yes your mother is entitled to it..within 2 weeks mum was awarded it..and i honestly didnt do anything..S/ W was amazing..he liased with gp / dn..and home. And it was all set up..i was so impressed i was actually shocked...so morale of story..you need a blxxdy good S/W
     
  15. Elle3

    Elle3 Registered User

    Jun 30, 2016
    602
    Not sure congratulations on getting funding so quick is the right thing to say given the sad reasons/situations of getting it rewarded with Dementia etc, but I hope you know what I mean.

    I also totally agree a good SW is so important. Ours was fantastic.

    Elle x
     
  16. Baby Bunty

    Baby Bunty Registered User

    Jan 24, 2018
    297
    Totally understand as bitter sweet..but yes social worker is main person.xxx
     
  17. sixy74

    sixy74 Registered User

    Jul 4, 2018
    101
    Thanks guys for your helpfull input . Such a shame isn’t it the way nothing is forthcoming in a country like the UK in 2018 especially when you should be focussing on your loved one with Dementia or any illness at all not the financial side of things
     
  18. 88Richard88

    88Richard88 Registered User

    Aug 15, 2018
    12
     
  19. 88Richard88

    88Richard88 Registered User

    Aug 15, 2018
    12
    Hi Sixty74, Sorry to hear about your father. I have just been through the very same situation with my 84 year old mother who I finally succeeded in getting CHC funding for and also got it back-dated from when she was discharged from hospital and admitted to a care home. On reading your post, I believe that there is a strong chance that your Dad will qualify
     
  20. 88Richard88

    88Richard88 Registered User

    Aug 15, 2018
    12
    Hi Sixty74, Sorry to hear about your father. I have just been through the very same situation with my 84 year old mother who I finally succeeded in getting CHC funding for and also got it back-dated from when she was discharged from hospital in July 2014. On reading your post, I believe that there is a strong chance that your Dad will qualify. It is just a matter of how you play things with the Local Authority who have responsibility for your father. If you want any help, please let me know. Richard
     

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