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Certifying a Lasting Power of Attorney - a question or two

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by Grable, Sep 19, 2015.

  1. Grable

    Grable Registered User

    May 19, 2015
    165
    I'm sure some of you out there are experienced in this.

    I've just received notification that the LPA for my mum has been registered. Both my brother and I are attorneys, so we both will need copies to deal with her affairs. The notification says that, provided she still has capacity - which she does - she can write on the bottom of each page that it is a copy of the original and then sign and date it. Unfortunately, Mum's writing's not good and she finds copying difficult, but she can just about sign her name and write a date. Can I write the words specified and have Mum just sign the copies? Or does she have to write to prove that she has capacity?

    The other thing I wanted to know was whether banks can deal with an LPA by post, or whether it has to be something which is done face to face.

    Thanks, again, for any help.
     
  2. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,038
    Male
    North Manchester
    "Can I write the words specified and have Mum just sign the copies? Or does she have to write to prove that she has capacity?"

    You can write the words, note the last page is different to the others.
    You can also scan each page, save to *.doc or *.pdf , and then print adding a footer to print the words.

    "The other thing I wanted to know was whether banks can deal with an LPA by post, or whether it has to be something which is done face to face."

    You can deal by post, or a local branch of the same bank, don't send the original by post.
    It's a good idea to stick a post-it note on the document saying 'please return, several organisation now scan documents on receipt and shred the original.
     
  3. balloo

    balloo Registered User

    Sep 21, 2013
    227
    northamptonshire
    if you had done with solicitor they will give you more than one copy. also Department of pensions will want original copy posted to them and they send back
     
  4. lin1

    lin1 Registered User

    Jan 14, 2010
    9,322
    Female
    East Kent
    #4 lin1, Sep 19, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
    Hi.Apologies if I am wrong, I believe initially you have to take the original LPA , with two proofs of identity , one needs to be proof of address the other needs to be an official photograph sch as a passport , driving licence ect

    IMO it is best to make an appointment so you get a person who understands LPA's
    They will take a photo copy of the original and hand it straight back to you.

    As Nitram has already said , whatever you do don't send the original by post . Things do go astray.
    If you don't wish to send the original off to the DWP (personally I wouldn't) you can become an appointee for state pension and benefits.
     
  5. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,038
    Male
    North Manchester
    "Department of pensions will want original copy posted to them and they send back"

    They may want, but if you escalate why they want the original to management and point them to the Powers of Attorney Act 1971 they decide to accept a correctly certified copy.

    3 Proof of instruments creating powers of attorney.

    (1)The contents of an instrument creating a power of attorney may be proved by means of a copy which—
    (a)is a reproduction of the original made with a photographic or other device for reproducing documents in facsimile; and
    (b)contains the following certificate or certificates signed by the donor of the power or by a solicitor [F4duly certificated notary public] or stockbroker, that is to say—
    (i)a certificate at the end to the effect that the copy is a true and complete copy of the original; and
    (ii)if the original consists of two or more pages, a certificate at the end of each page of the copy to the effect that it is a true and complete copy of the corresponding page of the original.


    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/27?view=plain
     
  6. sleepless

    sleepless Registered User

    Feb 19, 2010
    3,232
    Female
    The Sweet North
    When my sister and I did Dad's LPA we got two Certified Copies together with the original, and written confirmation from the OPG that these copies were as good as the original for all purposes.
    Yet we always had to supply the original LPA (building society, insurance companies etc.)
    None of these institutions would accept the OPG Certified Copy.
    The original was unstapled and stapled back together so many times......I always checked by the way that ALL the pages were returned to me.
     
  7. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,038
    Male
    North Manchester
    "...you can become an appointee for state pension and benefits."

    The DWP do not usually grant an appointeeship if they are aware that an LPA for finance exists
     
  8. lin1

    lin1 Registered User

    Jan 14, 2010
    9,322
    Female
    East Kent
    Thanks Nitram , I didn't know that
     
  9. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,038
    Male
    North Manchester
    "When my sister and I did Dad's LPA we got two Certified Copies together with the original, and written confirmation from the OPG that these copies were as good as the original for all purposes."

    I had problems with the free certified copies that the OPG used to supply.
    The basic problem was that they were not certified in the usual way, there was not signature but 'validated' was pierced across the bottom of each sheet. All the objectors caved in after a bit of persuasion.
     
  10. Katrine

    Katrine Registered User

    Jan 20, 2011
    2,850
    England
    I became my mother's DWP appointee without any problem, even though my brother was at the time her Attorney. I just told them that although the POA was registered he lived overseas and could not actively manage her affairs. My mum had to sign something to give consent, as I recall.
     
  11. jan.s

    jan.s Registered User

    Sep 20, 2011
    7,352
    I had a couple of copies made by my solicitor, even though I completed the paperwork myself.

    I have never let the original out of my sight, because it is irreplaceable; I was told to always use the certified copies and have not had any problem.
     
  12. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,038
    Male
    North Manchester
    Powers of attorney are not listed in the cases where appointee action is not appropriate but I think they are often included.

    When appointee action is not appropriate
    5010 An appointee is not appropriate if the customer already has an OP of an equal or higher authority. These are:
    • deputies appointed by the CP in England and Wales
    • controllers appointed by the Office of Care and Protection in Northern Ireland
    • judicial factor appointed by the court in Scotland
    • guardian appointed by a court in Scotland
    • curators bonis appointed by a court in Scotland
    • tutors appointed by a court in Scotland
    • appointees previously authorized by an officer acting on behalf of the Secretary of
    State
    • parent/guardian - only used for DLA (appointee action not applicable if child under
    16).


    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...chment_data/file/226772/Part-05_Appointee.pdf
     
  13. sleepless

    sleepless Registered User

    Feb 19, 2010
    3,232
    Female
    The Sweet North
    "I had problems with the free certified copies that the OPG used to supply.
    The basic problem was that they were not certified in the usual way, there was not signature but 'validated' was pierced across the bottom of each sheet. All the objectors caved in after a bit of persuasion."

    Must improve my persuading technique then!

    Seriously, nitram,your post above is useful for anyone reading who is told the validated copy won't do.

    Posts about LPA's always seem to highlight the lack of consistency in dealing with them. Just another layer of difficulty for folk who are struggling with enough already.
     

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