Carehome Visits

Louise7

Volunteer Host
Mar 25, 2016
2,892
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@anxious annie It will be interesting to see what the position will be on care home visits after residents and staff have been vaccinated but as the vaccine does not prevent transmission or prevent infection I imagine that if the lateral flow tests are not being used then social distancing and PPE will still be needed until such time the general infection rates reduce to low levels. Who knows how long that will be though! :(
 

jennifer1967

Registered User
Mar 15, 2020
2,367
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Southampton
read in paper that vaccines are not getting through to carehome residents in norwich and sheffield. the staff are on their knees as increasing amount of staff are catching it and others will have to isolate so some staffing is critical. also saw nightingale hospital equipment dismantled, and oxygen is running low. there are ambulances stacking at the hospitals and its getting as bad as the peak the first lock down. we went from tier 2 to tier 4 in one day and even the isle of wight is tier 3 and they could isolate themselves but people are going there from tier 4 areas
 

anxious annie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2019
756
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I've no idea @Louise7 , as you say the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission or infection
( people just not as poorly with it). I would hope that the care homes would feel the vaccine would help minimise risk for residents and staff falling seriously ill and need of hospital treatment. This , along with lateral flow test and ppe/ hygiene etc should surely be considered enough to allow indoor visits with contact? We will all need to learn to live with this, even after mass vaccination, covid won't go away and care homes can't keep residents locked in indefinitely. Some I know are doing their best to keep them prisoner! Mum's care home is now Tier 4, as I feared, so they will continue to do closed window visits only for the foreseeable. I don't expect they will invest in a pod for the families who have to stand out in the snow, now they will be saying we are waiting for the vaccine which should hopefully be having soon. Who knows what they will say once the home have been vaccinated? I can't believe it is now 10 months since I have been in the same room as mum, let alone been able to hold her hand or hug her.
 

Louise7

Volunteer Host
Mar 25, 2016
2,892
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@anxious annie Mum was due to have the vaccine yesterday but I was informed that as there are 2 cases of covid in the home the vaccinations can not be done for at least another 28 days o_O I am trying to find out more information at the moment as care home residents are the priority for vaccination and it seems completely ridiculous to say that the residents who don't have covid have to remain at risk from those that do when they could have the vaccination to help keep them safe. I haven't found any government/PHE guidance to support what I was told. I was also informed that the local authority have said no visits at all, even window visits, as the home is in tier 4. The care home manager suggested that visits might start again at Easter!
 

anxious annie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2019
756
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So sorry to hear this @Louise7 , such a worrying time for you , I wonder who has suggested that rule? I know Government guidance does allow closed window and substantial screen visits in Tier 4, I can't understand what risk the local authority feels there is to impose this blanket ban. A whole year wasted, it really isn't good enough!
 

Lone Wolf

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
115
0
After all this time and so many unfulfilled hopes & promises, I am in utter despair at ever being able to see my Ann properly again. The only blessing is that at her stage of the journey I don't think she has any awareness of my absence. I just hope that she is being properly looked after.
 

lemonbalm

Registered User
May 21, 2018
1,234
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We have had no visits of any sort since Christmas, when relatives were able to have a short visit in a designated area after a negative lateral flow test result. It is a small care home though, with no space for a permanent partition or separate room for visiting. Unfortunately, two weeks after the residents and staff having their first Oxford vaccination, there are now several members of staff and residents with Covid. This is their first outbreak, which I suppose is ironic as well as upsetting.
 

Palerider

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
2,355
0
North West
Anyone else still facing a complete ban on all forms of care home visits?
Yes, and many of us are. I am at my wits end with it and its making me very stressed and depressed in the process and on top of everything else.

However, we are now close to achieving a change in the law on visiting and I strongly advise anyone who has the will to write an email to their MP in support of this change -the more the merrier!

 

Lone Wolf

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
115
0
Last Wednesday I emailed the care home manager and asked for an individual risk assessment based upon current regulations and guidance, and asked him to phone me to discuss my request. No response at all yet. Have phoned the care home several times since to talk to staff re my partner (not re my visiting request) and, maybe I am paranoid, but I feel that the previously friendly staff members were not so friendly. Again, maybe my judgement is misguided, but I wonder whether the care home management and perhaps staff really understand how it feels to be unable to properly see your partner or other much loved one for nigh on 11 months. How would they feel if they suddenly were stopped from seeing their partner, parent or other family member for such an extended period of that person's diminishing lifespan?
 

Palerider

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
2,355
0
North West
Last Wednesday I emailed the care home manager and asked for an individual risk assessment based upon current regulations and guidance, and asked him to phone me to discuss my request. No response at all yet. Have phoned the care home several times since to talk to staff re my partner (not re my visiting request) and, maybe I am paranoid, but I feel that the previously friendly staff members were not so friendly. Again, maybe my judgement is misguided, but I wonder whether the care home management and perhaps staff really understand how it feels to be unable to properly see your partner or other much loved one for nigh on 11 months. How would they feel if they suddenly were stopped from seeing their partner, parent or other family member for such an extended period of that person's diminishing lifespan?

I have made my stance very clear on my views to do with 'care' and the lack of insight by senior managers. I had the unfortunate experience of meeting the care home companies operations manager who I have to say is probably best off not being on the frontline of care, and possibly better off working for another company entirely outside of care. We exchanged a conversation which did not go well by the end and I recall the care admin offcier and recpetionsist who witnessed my words burying their heads in their paperwork and looking very grim. I fail to understand how an ops manager can comment on my mum and her wellbeing when she has only met her for five minutes of her professional life. I also fail to understand how an ops manager cannot grasp end stage dementia. When the ops amanger had the nerve to suggest mum was somehow resolving and fighting for life that her comments were misplaced.

We have mistakenly been convinved that the private sector was always the right way forward for care of our most frail. I am not saying a pubic service would be 100 times better, but it would certainly be 50 times better and not only that they would have to honour both the Human Rights Act and the Equality Act as a public service. Instead we are at the mercy of complex laws that serve no other ineterst than that of these so called 'care providers' -its shockingly bad and anyone who doesn't get this I have to say is barron of any morality
 

LizzieGee

New member
Dec 23, 2020
3
0
I think there are so many of us in this nightmare position - even though all the residents of my mums care home are now vaccinated. I've recently discovered the Rights for Residents facebook group and am so impressed by how they are trying so hard to get this changed. It is so hard when you are ' arguing' with the very people who you are trusting to care for your loved ones - bit I do feel that by not pushing as hard as I can I am letting my mum down. The R for R leaders describe it so well when they suggest we shouldn't be seen as ' visitors' but as part of the total care package - we have a vital role in looking after our loved ones. Surely if we can get a test to get on a plane to go on holiday we can get a test ahead of visiting our relatives, in the same way that their carers do, which would enable us to sit side by side with them and reassure them when they need it most. Good luck everyone.
 

Kellyr

Registered User
Aug 8, 2020
167
0
We have had no visits of any sort since Christmas, when relatives were able to have a short visit in a designated area after a negative lateral flow test result. It is a small care home though, with no space for a permanent partition or separate room for visiting. Unfortunately, two weeks after the residents and staff having their first Oxford vaccination, there are now several members of staff and residents with Covid. This is their first outbreak, which I suppose is ironic as well as upsetting.
Many similar stories coming out now sadly
 

Kellyr

Registered User
Aug 8, 2020
167
0
Last Wednesday I emailed the care home manager and asked for an individual risk assessment based upon current regulations and guidance, and asked him to phone me to discuss my request. No response at all yet. Have phoned the care home several times since to talk to staff re my partner (not re my visiting request) and, maybe I am paranoid, but I feel that the previously friendly staff members were not so friendly. Again, maybe my judgement is misguided, but I wonder whether the care home management and perhaps staff really understand how it feels to be unable to properly see your partner or other much loved one for nigh on 11 months. How would they feel if they suddenly were stopped from seeing their partner, parent or other family member for such an extended period of that person's diminishing lifespan?
Its horrendous, and so many dont actually seem to grasp the severity of the situation. They will often say something like 'I havent seen my granny for ten months' when that has essentially been their choice. Its completely different when the choice is tsken out of your hands. My mum and all in her home have had covid now, I could wear ppe, take a test and am not seeing many people now anyway but its still a no. The Government are not at all concerned about elderly/vulnerable people and its truly shocking.
 

Kellyr

Registered User
Aug 8, 2020
167
0
Anyone else still facing a complete ban on all forms of care home visits?
If you can get on Facebook the Rights for Residents group are really fighting for a change in the law. If youre not on Facebook maybe someone could help you sign up? Its very helpful to know how many are feeling the same as us. It may give you some strength to keep going 🙂
 

anxious annie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2019
756
0
I listened to the Human Rights Commitee on Parliament TV and used the Rights for Residents template letter (adapted) to email mum's and my MP @Palerider . I had no response so chased with another email on Friday. I plan to phone if I haven't heard back within a couple of days. It shouldn't be so difficult to get an answer to a specific question, but all I get is a generic email from anyone in Government or opposition party. Yes @LizzieGee there are so many in this position. Before Christmas we seemed to be getting somewhere , with change in emphasis from Government guidance and the promise of LFT for indoor visits. Now we are in Lockdown with the new strain we are further away than ever @Kellyr . @Lone Wolf @lemonbalm mum's home has closed window visits where we have to communicate by phone , l think it disgusting that anyone can feel it's ok for family to stand outside in the snow in order to have face to face contact. Some family members are elderly and frail themselves. No plan for a pod to at least keep family warmer. Now they have their third "outbreak" since November, so residents isolating in their rooms . It's so hard for mum and other residents with dementia to understand , and the I hear Sir Kier is isolating, and Matt Hancock, but I don't know if I got this right , that they will be back next week (was Matt on Andrew Marr yesterday) so that will be 7 days isolation, not 10. Perhaps I misunderstood! I don't think the vaccine ( both jabs) will make any difference to having indoor visits with contact. I listened to Sir Patrick last week on Sky News and his answer to a Rights for Residents question "with a dose of a vaccine, PPE and use of LFT, is it relatively safe for indoor care home visits. " He replied firmly "no , it's not safe". He also warned " Even if you've had two doses of the vaccine , you should not visit a care home". I am assuming the "you've" he refers to means us, family member. I emailed Government Office for Science to suggest he was very muddled because the earliest any family would have 2 jabs ( the over 80s) would be mid April, and for many other family members it could be July or later and how could Sir Patrick possibly know what the situation will be by Summer? He should not be answering questions looking so far ahead, in my opinion. If Matt is talking of booking a summer holiday in Cornwall I expect care home visits to be back to normal, pre covid. I hope after 2 jabs for residents, and cases decreasing in the community that indoor visits with LFT, PPE etc should go ahead. No one is suggesting visits right now, but as soon as community can meet with others outside their household , care home residents should be allowed visits too! Sorry for the long rant, I'm just fed up being ignored by those that hold the power.
 

Lone Wolf

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
115
0
Nearly a week now and no response to my email request for an individual visiting risk assessment - not even an acknowledgement of the request.
 

Palerider

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
2,355
0
North West
I listened to the Human Rights Commitee on Parliament TV and used the Rights for Residents template letter (adapted) to email mum's and my MP @Palerider . I had no response so chased with another email on Friday. I plan to phone if I haven't heard back within a couple of days. It shouldn't be so difficult to get an answer to a specific question, but all I get is a generic email from anyone in Government or opposition party. Yes @LizzieGee there are so many in this position. Before Christmas we seemed to be getting somewhere , with change in emphasis from Government guidance and the promise of LFT for indoor visits. Now we are in Lockdown with the new strain we are further away than ever @Kellyr . @Lone Wolf @lemonbalm mum's home has closed window visits where we have to communicate by phone , l think it disgusting that anyone can feel it's ok for family to stand outside in the snow in order to have face to face contact. Some family members are elderly and frail themselves. No plan for a pod to at least keep family warmer. Now they have their third "outbreak" since November, so residents isolating in their rooms . It's so hard for mum and other residents with dementia to understand , and the I hear Sir Kier is isolating, and Matt Hancock, but I don't know if I got this right , that they will be back next week (was Matt on Andrew Marr yesterday) so that will be 7 days isolation, not 10. Perhaps I misunderstood! I don't think the vaccine ( both jabs) will make any difference to having indoor visits with contact. I listened to Sir Patrick last week on Sky News and his answer to a Rights for Residents question "with a dose of a vaccine, PPE and use of LFT, is it relatively safe for indoor care home visits. " He replied firmly "no , it's not safe". He also warned " Even if you've had two doses of the vaccine , you should not visit a care home". I am assuming the "you've" he refers to means us, family member. I emailed Government Office for Science to suggest he was very muddled because the earliest any family would have 2 jabs ( the over 80s) would be mid April, and for many other family members it could be July or later and how could Sir Patrick possibly know what the situation will be by Summer? He should not be answering questions looking so far ahead, in my opinion. If Matt is talking of booking a summer holiday in Cornwall I expect care home visits to be back to normal, pre covid. I hope after 2 jabs for residents, and cases decreasing in the community that indoor visits with LFT, PPE etc should go ahead. No one is suggesting visits right now, but as soon as community can meet with others outside their household , care home residents should be allowed visits too! Sorry for the long rant, I'm just fed up being ignored by those that hold the power.

I think this adds to the testimony so many of us are experiencing and as for answers around visiting to care homes I think many senior advisors are reluctant to say anything or simply avoid the issues entirely. Its very much a Catch-22 and already contradictory advice and action has ensued with devestating effect.

What this has revealed is a very big problem not highlighted before, and I do feel there is considerable disagreement out of the public eye on this. I am fortunate to have an MP that has since replied to all of my emails to day, not just on my experience with banned visits to see my mum but also the experience I had as my sister was moved to the hospice on her last day. I won't post the letter as I feel that would be a betrayal of our MP's committment to resolving this mess, but she did say this:

As you may know, I have repeatedly voted against arbitrary and conflicting lockdown measures on the justification that once the public has been given a clear message on the vulnerabilities and precautions that they need to take, they should then be trusted to make their own decisions in a covid secure and sensible manner - as you would have done with visiting your sister. I will continue to use internal parliamentary mechanisms at my disposal to echo the concerns of my constituents. Cases such as yours are the reality of current policy and I will ensure colleagues and ministers are aware.
 
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Kellyr

Registered User
Aug 8, 2020
167
0
I listened to the Human Rights Commitee on Parliament TV and used the Rights for Residents template letter (adapted) to email mum's and my MP @Palerider . I had no response so chased with another email on Friday. I plan to phone if I haven't heard back within a couple of days. It shouldn't be so difficult to get an answer to a specific question, but all I get is a generic email from anyone in Government or opposition party. Yes @LizzieGee there are so many in this position. Before Christmas we seemed to be getting somewhere , with change in emphasis from Government guidance and the promise of LFT for indoor visits. Now we are in Lockdown with the new strain we are further away than ever @Kellyr . @Lone Wolf @lemonbalm mum's home has closed window visits where we have to communicate by phone , l think it disgusting that anyone can feel it's ok for family to stand outside in the snow in order to have face to face contact. Some family members are elderly and frail themselves. No plan for a pod to at least keep family warmer. Now they have their third "outbreak" since November, so residents isolating in their rooms . It's so hard for mum and other residents with dementia to understand , and the I hear Sir Kier is isolating, and Matt Hancock, but I don't know if I got this right , that they will be back next week (was Matt on Andrew Marr yesterday) so that will be 7 days isolation, not 10. Perhaps I misunderstood! I don't think the vaccine ( both jabs) will make any difference to having indoor visits with contact. I listened to Sir Patrick last week on Sky News and his answer to a Rights for Residents question "with a dose of a vaccine, PPE and use of LFT, is it relatively safe for indoor care home visits. " He replied firmly "no , it's not safe". He also warned " Even if you've had two doses of the vaccine , you should not visit a care home". I am assuming the "you've" he refers to means us, family member. I emailed Government Office for Science to suggest he was very muddled because the earliest any family would have 2 jabs ( the over 80s) would be mid April, and for many other family members it could be July or later and how could Sir Patrick possibly know what the situation will be by Summer? He should not be answering questions looking so far ahead, in my opinion. If Matt is talking of booking a summer holiday in Cornwall I expect care home visits to be back to normal, pre covid. I hope after 2 jabs for residents, and cases decreasing in the community that indoor visits with LFT, PPE etc should go ahead. No one is suggesting visits right now, but as soon as community can meet with others outside their household , care home residents should be allowed visits too! Sorry for the long rant, I'm just fed up being ignored by those that hold the power.
@anxiousannie I didnt hear the comments from Valance. I try to avoid those press conferences. If hes really saying that proper visits cant take place even with all the measures you highlighted, then the notion that any of this is about the virus is for the birds.
 
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