I’m POA fir health and seperately, finances for my mother. Her Care home performed assessments without me present and increased Care costs from £34/day ti £117/day in one step without agreeing with me first. I have witheld the higher level costs while waiting for justification for her Care level. They feel they’ve given it but all they have verbally provided is that her incontinence and need for help with personal hygiene indicates that level. I’n not aware of any assessment for incontinence or knowledge of incontinence. She dies suffer urgency without incontinence daytime and incontinence at night. We agreed a recent assessment with changes but that assessment was changed after our agreement to something , as her POA/daughter I din’t agree with. I therefore cannot sign any agreement and din’t wish to hand over her money without agreement. They are threatening debt collection , legal action and are throwing her out of the “Care” Home after 3 years!! Any advice? Do I pay the witheld amount? Can they throw her out? Is this legal?
Care Home payments
- Thread starter Sydney21
- Start date
I agree £34/day seems very low, compare it with staying at a any of the chain lodges without any food.
Depending on where you live £117 sounds more normal.
What does the contract say about general/annual increases and personal increases due to change in care needs?
Depending on where you live £117 sounds more normal.
What does the contract say about general/annual increases and personal increases due to change in care needs?
As with any contractual dispute the starting point is what it says in the contract. Read it all carefully. Does it give them a right to increase charges without agreement? Does it make provision for independent arbitration?
If the total charges are £117 a day I agree with others that this is still at the lower end of care home fees. My mother pays more than that. I can't believe you got a care home for £34 a day in total, so was this in fact a supplement on top of "hotel " charges?
If you can post here details of the total charges, and the exact wording of the contract as regards charges and increases, we might be better able to help.
If the total charges are £117 a day I agree with others that this is still at the lower end of care home fees. My mother pays more than that. I can't believe you got a care home for £34 a day in total, so was this in fact a supplement on top of "hotel " charges?
If you can post here details of the total charges, and the exact wording of the contract as regards charges and increases, we might be better able to help.
Every year mums payments to the care home was reassessed. As her needs increased so did her payments. There was also increases due to increases in staff salaries, utilities, food costs etc etc. Sometimes the fees could go up enormously.
Thank you for responding. There is a separate charge of £147/day for room/hotel charges, so a total daily charge of £264. The contract says :” where there is an increase in the Care Services Fee arising from a change in the care services provided…the increase shall be recorded in the form set out in schedule 7 - Form of Variation. The resident will sign this form and will pay the increased care services Fee from the date on which the increase will take effect…..”
This schedule 7 form wasn’t provided until after my mother and without discussion or agreement with me as her POA.
Yes agreed, I discussed and accepted an increase from £34/day to 85/day but on moving her into the dementia unit was asked to sign for £117/day. Asking around other Homes seem to have a cap on their Care costs. This Home, without realising when researching Homes, has 7 levels and this rate is only level 2.
Thanks for your reply. The contract separates annual increases from Care cost assessments/increases. I don’t have an issue with annual increases as that’s life but there was no discussion or agreement with the £117/day. I only discussed £85/day as her POA and wasn’t included in the assessment as POA, which dictates the care cost.
Her total daily charge with room rate is £264. My issue is not knowing why she is on this level and how would she move up the levels. I’n paying the level we agreed (£85) but withholding the extra until I understand what care I’m paying for & can then agree and sign schedule 7
That's £53655pa.
As a comparison Dilnot in 2011 recommended an annual cap on accommodation cost of £7000-£10000 pa, there's not been that much inflation in 10 years.
<As an aside, under current proposals 'hotel' costs will not count towards lifetime cap on care commencing October 2023>
£34 is low and as her POA we discussed £85 but I wasn’t included in the care assessment process as her POA. I am paying what we discussed and agreed but withholding the higher amount until they can agree an assessment with my presence and now that my mother is no longer unwell and off antibiotics
We agreed that assessment Aug 31st but they haven’t provided it or schedule 7 to sign
I might sound ignorant here but who is Dilnot? 2023 maybe too late for my mother. She’s lost everything. Husband, house, money
Dilnot 2011 was a commission that recommended a funded method for care.
The Care Act 2014 was based on this although diluted and only partially implemented.
The current care funding proposals scheduled to take effect in Oct 2023 are an even more diluted version.
The reasoning behind 'hotel' costs is given in 101 in https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldeconaf/392/39206.htm
The Care Act 2014 was based on this although diluted and only partially implemented.
The current care funding proposals scheduled to take effect in Oct 2023 are an even more diluted version.
The reasoning behind 'hotel' costs is given in 101 in https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldeconaf/392/39206.htm
