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Care home - how do we manage this?

Sarasa

Registered User
Apr 13, 2018
1,002
So glad for your sister @Ponddweller. Let's hope all the things fall into place for your dad sooner rather than later. He may well pay attention to the police officer. Mum called the police out several times when she thought the neighbours were breaking into her flat. They were very good at being sympathetic, but telling her she needed to ignore them rather than keep banging on their door.
A worry about your FiL too.
 

Ponddweller

Registered User
Jun 20, 2019
79
Update, my sister clamped Dad’s car hoping that he’d call the police as an interim before being able to access the house to get his keys to take the car. He found it today and first called the garage (who refused) and according to the carers has now sawn it off. Six months ago he was exhausted by everything. Alzheimer’s seems to have given him energy and abilities he’s never had before, like using a mobile phone. So sister will go round tomorrow to see what his attitude is and try and swipe keys then she’ll take it in the night, we’ll have to worry about the insurance and documentation later. But I’m absolutely sure he’ll attempt to buy another car. The memory clinic said that if that’s the case I should think of taking total control of his finances. But that means he can’t use cards or anything. But that would mean he wouldn’t be able to live in his house and there’s no way a doctor (Especially his) would say he doesn’t have capacity. He’s nowhere near enough impaired that a CH could detain him. I was so thrown by her - there’s no way I could take that decision without professional advice! Social services have confirmed the only way they can help us with physical needs as at the moment he’s not turning away meds carers. After reading widely on here I contacted an independent social worker to see if she can help us address the gaps in his capacity and what’s in his best interests. Does anyone have any experience of using independent SWs? I’m speaking to her next week.
I really appreciate your help. I’m very conscious that I keep asking questions!! FIL (moderate/advanced AZ) still in hospital and trying to escape. Oh happy days :(
 

Ponddweller

Registered User
Jun 20, 2019
79
The car has been removed. Just waiting for the onslaught. He hasn’t rung either of us all week so I don’t know if he thinks it was us/sister with the clamp.
He’s started sleeping really late and going to bed late like a teenager. Could this be the start of mixing up day and night or does that happen more suddenly? No wonder he didn’t like the home he tried if they’d all gone to bed by 8pm.
 

Woo2

Registered User
Apr 30, 2019
1,127
South East
Good luck , hope you don’t get a backlash , you have done the right thing , I don’t underestimate just how hard that is to do .
 

Ponddweller

Registered User
Jun 20, 2019
79
Thanks @Woohoo. We’ve been doing Lego all afternoon as a distraction! I’m sure it’s not the end of the story though, not when he can take a hacksaw to a wheel clamp!
 

Ponddweller

Registered User
Jun 20, 2019
79
Thank you! I do love my pond. Unfortunately it attracts the local deer so we have no plants left. Going to ring round some local second hand car dealers tomorrow to try and preempt him. I really don’t want to take the nuclear option of freezing his account. I’m sure Martin Lewis had a campaign a while back to help people who were bipolar to put notes and limits on their accounts to stop them making inappropriate purchases when they were suffering an episode. Surely it would help prevent vulnerable people falling prey to scammers as well.
 

jugglingmum

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
5,616
Chester
I've not read the whole thread, but have been dipping in and out (seems appropriate )

Meant to say this earlier but didn't have time to post.

What I've seen suggested previously, using POA, is leave him with access to his current account, with a small amount of money in which you top up (weekly monthly etc) but transfer all of his savings to another account which he can't access.

Certainly when I registered mum's POA, every bank asked if she still had capacity, at the time, she did and I said yes to the one's she used the cheque book on (no longer capable of operating a bank card at the time). Others I said no, as I thought this provided better security for mum. (she had limited capacity - enough to deal with a cheque book but not enough to understand a bank statement to be honest). I did what worked for mum at the time, but this might give you some thoughts as to how to deal with it.

So what I am suggesting is you can tell the bank with current account he has capacity, and the open a seperate account at another bank (using POA) and say he doesn't have capacity. If you think you can get away with this.

Banks legally have to freeze a PWD's access to their own accounts it they believe the PWD doesn't have capacity so needs to be done carefully.
 

Ponddweller

Registered User
Jun 20, 2019
79
Hi @jugglingmum and thanks so much. I’ve been thinking along those lines but I’m going to have to play it very carefully. He still understands money, cards, cheques etc and looks at his balance. I’ve got representative access primarily to make sure the carers get paid. I’ve turned off paper statements hoping he won’t notice but he still knows how much should be in his current account. When the dust settles I’ll definitely try and separate he money out. It’s so odd, he’s lost some capacity in that he has no short term memory so can’t retain anything any authorities tell him but he’s gained capacity in other ways like gaining a lot of gumption in calling taxis and locksmiths if it’s to get something he wants. I think he’s reverting to teenagerhood and I’ve already got two on the verge of that!
 

Ponddweller

Registered User
Jun 20, 2019
79
Well it was good while it lasted! We’ve had five days of nice dad and him not twigging that the car had been taken and wasn’t just at the garage. He’s just rung my sister to say he knows she has the car and he doesn’t want to see her again and he’s changing the locks on the house and reporting her for theft. She calmly explained that the police told her to do it as she has POA and he said he’s going to get it reversed tomorrow. Fortunately now the initial shock that he can turn nasty has passed she’s much more able to deal with it and let it slide. And at least he didn’t scream this time. Only problem is this week he’s been refusing to go shopping either with sister or carers and now they’ve said have said he doesn’t have any food (he does in the freezer!) so she’ll have to visit and drop food off tomorrow. Oh well. I do hope this phase doesn’t last too long. At least he has taken to his carers and calls them his girls. They have to wake him up at 11.30 though as he’s still snoring!! Having spent day at hospital with FIL with much later stage AZ this is starting to feel like a very long road.
 

TNJJ

Registered User
May 7, 2019
1,214
cornwall
Well it was good while it lasted! We’ve had five days of nice dad and him not twigging that the car had been taken and wasn’t just at the garage. He’s just rung my sister to say he knows she has the car and he doesn’t want to see her again and he’s changing the locks on the house and reporting her for theft. She calmly explained that the police told her to do it as she has POA and he said he’s going to get it reversed tomorrow. Fortunately now the initial shock that he can turn nasty has passed she’s much more able to deal with it and let it slide. And at least he didn’t scream this time. Only problem is this week he’s been refusing to go shopping either with sister or carers and now they’ve said have said he doesn’t have any food (he does in the freezer!) so she’ll have to visit and drop food off tomorrow. Oh well. I do hope this phase doesn’t last too long. At least he has taken to his carers and calls them his girls. They have to wake him up at 11.30 though as he’s still snoring!! Having spent day at hospital with FIL with much later stage AZ this is starting to feel like a very long road.
I got my dad’s carers to do the shopping after I stopped doing it. They have 3 hours a fortnight to do it. He can go if he wants to or not. What about anything like that for your dad?
 

TNJJ

Registered User
May 7, 2019
1,214
cornwall
I got my dad’s carers to do the shopping after I stopped doing it. They have 3 hours a fortnight to do it. He can go if he wants to or not. What about anything like that for your dad?
I used to do online delivery before I stopped.
 

Ponddweller

Registered User
Jun 20, 2019
79
Hi @TNJJ yes, I did ask the carers to suggest it and the company owner offered to take him himself but dad turned him down. Carer called my sister tonight about the lack of food and offered to do a bit of shopping tonight on his own credit card until my sister told him about the freezer. Hopefully he’ll start to accept it like he did with the carers. It seems he was hopping in his car of an evening and going up the high street to buy chips and now he’s been thwarted and is “being deliberately starved to death”. He also has a mobility buggy that he uses quite happily! It’s not a logic thing. He just wants his car!
 

TNJJ

Registered User
May 7, 2019
1,214
cornwall
Hi @TNJJ yes, I did ask the carers to suggest it and the company owner offered to take him himself but dad turned him down. Carer called my sister tonight about the lack of food and offered to do a bit of shopping tonight on his own credit card until my sister told him about the freezer. Hopefully he’ll start to accept it like he did with the carers. It seems he was hopping in his car of an evening and going up the high street to buy chips and now he’s been thwarted and is “being deliberately starved to death”. He also has a mobility buggy that he uses quite happily! It’s not a logic thing. He just wants his car!
I have a dad very similar so I completely get it. I sometimes expect my dad to stand up and stamp his feet(cannot without a frame or carer) and just do a toddler strop!
 

Normaleila

Registered User
Jun 4, 2016
731
Update, my sister clamped Dad’s car hoping that he’d call the police as an interim before being able to access the house to get his keys to take the car. He found it today and first called the garage (who refused) and according to the carers has now sawn it off. Six months ago he was exhausted by everything. Alzheimer’s seems to have given him energy and abilities he’s never had before, like using a mobile phone. So sister will go round tomorrow to see what his attitude is and try and swipe keys then she’ll take it in the night, we’ll have to worry about the insurance and documentation later. But I’m absolutely sure he’ll attempt to buy another car. The memory clinic said that if that’s the case I should think of taking total control of his finances. But that means he can’t use cards or anything. But that would mean he wouldn’t be able to live in his house and there’s no way a doctor (Especially his) would say he doesn’t have capacity. He’s nowhere near enough impaired that a CH could detain him. I was so thrown by her - there’s no way I could take that decision without professional advice! Social services have confirmed the only way they can help us with physical needs as at the moment he’s not turning away meds carers. After reading widely on here I contacted an independent social worker to see if she can help us address the gaps in his capacity and what’s in his best interests. Does anyone have any experience of using independent SWs? I’m speaking to her next week.
I really appreciate your help. I’m very conscious that I keep asking questions!! FIL (moderate/advanced AZ) still in hospital and trying to escape. Oh happy days :(
Hi. I found an independent social worker when we were desperate to help my aunt but didnt know how. He was marvellous. He visited her and wrote a report - confirmed she didnt have capacity but explained how she could stay at home if the risks were minimised - accepting food deliveries, not wandering at night, and so on. Soon afterwards she refused the food deliveries and crossed a very busy A road in a storm after dark. He then confirmed she now needed to move to a care home. We all lived 3 or 4 hours away, so he found us two good care homes and arranged for them to visit and assess my aunt. Just before she was due to move to a home she had a fall and ended up in hospital. Hospital was then in a hurry to discharge her. The social worker arranged for the home to take her a week early and collected her from hospital and took her to the home. This was such a relief to us because we couldn't even imagine how to actually, physically, get her in a car and take her to the home ourselves.
Your father is obviously at a different stage and not likely to let a stranger in for a chat or leave hospital in a stranger's car but even so I think an independent social worker could be very helpful to you. Very best wishes.
 

Ponddweller

Registered User
Jun 20, 2019
79
Dear @Normaleila thanjs so much for your reply. I’d read mentions of your experience with the independent SW before so had a chat with one this week. There aren’t many near my dad but I think this lady will be able to help us when the time comes. She was certainly very reassuring. Can I ask did you have to be present when the SW met your aunt? I think we need things to get a bit worse before we try and effect any change tbh. I’m quite aware I’ve been trying to “sort things out” from afar to take some pressure off my sister but it’s just leading to disappointment when they don’t work out. unfortunately at the moment my FIL is in hospital and I suspect will have to go straight into care so I might not be that free in the next few weeks to go the long distance to dads to sort the stuff I need to whilst juggling the kids and husbands foreign travel for work. I wonder if independent social workers will be a growth area? There’s certainly a gap in the market for people who are self-funding but just need sensible guidance on what on Earth they’re supposed to do in these horrible situations. Thanks again.
 

Normaleila

Registered User
Jun 4, 2016
731
Dear @Normaleila thanjs so much for your reply. I’d read mentions of your experience with the independent SW before so had a chat with one this week. There aren’t many near my dad but I think this lady will be able to help us when the time comes. She was certainly very reassuring. Can I ask did you have to be present when the SW met your aunt? I think we need things to get a bit worse before we try and effect any change tbh. I’m quite aware I’ve been trying to “sort things out” from afar to take some pressure off my sister but it’s just leading to disappointment when they don’t work out. unfortunately at the moment my FIL is in hospital and I suspect will have to go straight into care so I might not be that free in the next few weeks to go the long distance to dads to sort the stuff I need to whilst juggling the kids and husbands foreign travel for work. I wonder if independent social workers will be a growth area? There’s certainly a gap in the market for people who are self-funding but just need sensible guidance on what on Earth they’re supposed to do in these horrible situations. Thanks again.
Hi.
I lived 3 hours north of my aunt, my sister lived 4 hours south. We did visit regularly but never with the independent social worker. I found him and had a long talk on the phone. I have LPA for legal and financial, my sister has LPA for health and welfare. So I asked him to next speak with my sister and he liaised with her from then on. My sister met him once for a chat on the way home from visiting my aunt but I never met him. It can all be done from a distance if you trust the social worker.
 
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Ponddweller

Registered User
Jun 20, 2019
79
That’s really helpful, thank you. I know I’d feel much happier taking the advice of an expert! And it was very reassuring speaking to someone independent. Today we’re back to nice dad and a window of clarity. He’s had the letter I requested from the DVLA confirming he has no licence and he has made a gp appointment to chat it over do he understands it properly. Even told my sister that he’d find the log book, pay for the repairs and give it to one of the older grandchildren. I nearly fell over! At least now we know when he switches back Ian’s disowns us it’s not permanent. Good lord dementia is quite the adventure isn’t it :rolleyes:
 

Ponddweller

Registered User
Jun 20, 2019
79
Hi @Woohoo how’s it going? I have been lurking a bit on the forum but not posting. Nothing much has happened with my dad recently. I’ve been keeping my distance from him this week as Father in law (92, moderate AZ) died in hospital last weekend so we’ve been helping out my MIL. He’d been in hospital for a couple of weeks and even if he’d rallied he would have had to go in to nursing care so I think the family are relieved that things ended when they did. My MIL also realised how much her life had been taken over by the AZ even though she was able to leave him at home for shortish periods. He was a very lovely gentle man, and pretty much remained so through the dementia and just quietly retreated. Very sad and lonely for MIL but without some of the horrible situations that many on here experience. I’ve been avoiding speaking to my dad though. Husband told me that the medical staff advised them not to leave as the end was imminent. I was on phone to my dad so I passed the news on and his attitude was so callous and uncaring. Yes, I know it’s the disease but he had a tendency to be like that before. I’ll have to call him tonight and I’m not looking forward to it. The car is off at the menders and although he’s cross, the blame us now shifted to the doctors not us thank goodness.
Turns out he’s been visited once or twice a week by a dementia nurse that the GP surgery arranged. Anyone have any experience of these? My dad apparently enjoys her visits but he has absolutely no memory of them or her.