Care Home funding

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Platinum, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. Platinum

    Platinum Registered User

    Nov 7, 2017
    66
    Female
    South east
    My OH is currently in an NHS Mental Health Unit and I gather he can now be discharged. I am his partner and hold EPOA which has been accepted in every situation so far (registered with OPG 2015). I have been advised by our Mental Health Practitioner that only one NH can meet his needs. We have had two failed placements during the last six months the last involving physical removal by paramedics /police to Hospital and subsequent transferral to the current NHS unit. I keep in touch with the selected NH as there is a waiting list. A CHC MDT was held yesterday which, as anticipated, was refused, but FNC was given. I worked comprehensively to prepare for this and may or may not appeal. I contacted the NH who explained that FNC is added added to their weekly care fee, ie the £1200 estimated weekly fee goes up to £1358.16 and the FNC of £158.16 is deducted. I asked if their contract paperwork could be emailed in anticipation of a place becoming available. They know we are self funding and the usual question of can you fund for two years is top of the list but it then goes on to request supporting bank statements, plus other details regarding investments, stocks and shares, pensions and an agreement to provide a legal charge over property(we are not married but I live there). I am a little shocked by all this but should I be? Any advice is more than welcome!
     
  2. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,892
    Male
    North Manchester
    Was/is your OH being held under section?

    Only your OH should be liable for paying fees although you can opt to subsidise him.
    Unless you are prepared to do so only submit details of his sole funds and 50% of any shared funds, think about what happens if the upper limit of LA assistance is reached, will they expect (demand under contract) top ups to be paid. You could end up penniless.

    The house is more difficult, how is it owned? If there is charge on the house when will it have to be sold to pay the home, on your death if you remain resident?

    Don't agree to anything even verbally, ask for a copy of all documentation and then take informed legal advice.
    You could contact either or both of

    https://societyoflaterlifeadvisers.co.uk/
    https://sfe.legal/

    as a start
     
  3. charlie10

    charlie10 Registered User

    Dec 20, 2018
    300
    Yes this is something I wondered about, Platinum.....anyone can say they can afford funding for 2 yrs but I thought it was odd that a business wouldn't want proof. At the moment my FIL is doing well in Rehab so we think they'll ok him to go home, but as for the future......well, forewarned is forearmed! I hope you can get your OH settled without any more hassle....nothing seems to be simple :(

    Nitram....thank you so much for your clear advice....you are a very knowledgeable person :cool:
     
  4. Platinum

    Platinum Registered User

    Nov 7, 2017
    66
    Female
    South east
     
  5. Platinum

    Platinum Registered User

    Nov 7, 2017
    66
    Female
    South east
     
  6. Normaleila

    Normaleila Registered User

    Jun 4, 2016
    661
    Hi
    It's almost 2 years since my aunt entered her care home. The cost is almost £5000 per month. As attorney, I was asked whether she had 2 years' fees but I wasn't asked to prove it.
     
  7. Platinum

    Platinum Registered User

    Nov 7, 2017
    66
    Female
    South east
    Thank you Nitram and responders!
    My OH was not sectioned. Since I posted I have made it clear to OH’s next placement that I will not sign any of their contract other than to say I will as EPOA give an undertaking to guarantee there funding for two years of fees. Having just done a CHC MDT and then be faced with a contract from the next placement I was more than overwhelmed with anxiety about the future. There are practical threads and heart rending threads relating to CHC assessments. My mother was assessed-under the old 2007 PCT guidelines. I was eventually given an “audience” with the then relevant strategic health authority resulting in a refusal. An attempt to challenge the findings was abandoned after her death six weeks later. The process has not changed and the 2018 Framework is still designed to make the applicant prove a health almost impossible. I took the opportunity to ask the assessor what percentage of eligible applicants was recommended for CHC and was told “the national average of 20-25 pc. I think it’s probably nearer 15 pc. I may well appeal the fdecisiin jonce once I have received the paperwork. What I will say is the research and intensive preparation I extended to the CHC MDT engenders an acute feeling of negativity about in my case my OH. It is damaging and the disingenuous to even suggest anyone is eligible.
     
  8. Elle3

    Elle3 Registered User

    Jun 30, 2016
    611
    I am so sorry to read you did not get the CHC funding. From what you said your OH’s needs were very similar to my dad’s. It’s very troubling as it does appear to be a lottery, when it shouldn’t be.

    I know from my point of view getting funding takes so much pressure and worry away from you, especially when you have to consider how long the funds will last when you don’t get it. It’s all very, very wrong. I hope you appeal. Elle x
     
  9. Platinum

    Platinum Registered User

    Nov 7, 2017
    66
    Female
    South east
     
  10. Platinum

    Platinum Registered User

    Nov 7, 2017
    66
    Female
    South east
    Thank you Elle3. I have gone off point here as this thread is about care home funding. CHC would have helped eek out funds for his next residential placement even for three months. The home has agreed to two years using my EPOA but I will seek advice as Nitram suggests about the longer term. Having fought hard to get FNC it’s a little harsh not to even get a reduction in the weekly fee. Furthermore he has not been assessed yet so the fee has not yet been confirmed. Im hoping it doesn’t go up.
     
  11. padmag

    padmag Registered User

    May 8, 2012
    245
    nottingham
    My Mum was refused CHC but granted FNC. Before we had the DST meeting the care home manager reassured me that if Mum was granted FNC then it would definitely be deducted from the care home fees and reduce Mum's total fee payable. To add the FNC to the cost then deduct from care home fees (which you said was happening) is ridiculous as the only beneficiary will be the care home, probably incorrect as they are in essence increasing the care home fees!
     
  12. Elle3

    Elle3 Registered User

    Jun 30, 2016
    611
    My thoughts too regarding the care home increasing the fee just to take off the FNC.

    @Platinum if you don't already have a SW I would suggest contacting the Later Life team and see if they can give you some advice and support regarding the care home fees. In my situation the SW got the care home to agree to only charge me the LA rate, it was still expensive at over £1200 per week, but I was told the self funding rate would have been at least another £300 per week.

    Good luck. Elle x
     
  13. neilovrtn

    neilovrtn New member

    Mar 29, 2019
    1
    Hello.
    Simple question, please...
    For a financial assessment (social care, not NHS CC), how far back will they look at the bank statements?
     
  14. Louise7

    Louise7 Registered User

    Mar 25, 2016
    1,146
    Not sure if it varies dependant on the local authority but my Mum's LA requested bank statements going back 12 months.
     
  15. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    10,222
    Female
    South coast
    It varies from LA to LA - most want several months, but if there is a suspicion of Deprivation of Assets they are willing to go back several years.
    We got sent a letter listing the things that they wanted to see.
     
  16. Platinum

    Platinum Registered User

    Nov 7, 2017
    66
    Female
    South east
    Thank you for all your help and advice especially as you must be busy and sad dealing with your late father’s affairs. I have seen a newly available room in the only residential home accepting challenging behaviour recommended for my OH by the NHS unit where he has been for three months. The room was completely depressing (small, in the eaves/dark/tired scratched furniture/no comfortable chair/) and FNC added to room rate and deducted. I now have real doubts/fears about the home and just cannot see him settling there and visiting him will be upsetting. The CHC report is yet to arrive but the comments in the MDT downplayed a number of domains based on his current medical records which I haven’t seen. In retrospect I’m not convinced the meeting was properly convened and I am considering an appeal. He was certainly portrayed as someone without too much challenging behaviour yet it is recommended for transfer to this one CH only. I am also now seriously considering bringing him home and reinstating carers. It was stressful before but he is now on medication and I feel I owe it to him (and me) to try again. I expect it’s been done before but I remember Kindred saying the problem of going home is setting up a care home again if it fails. It’s all daunting no matter what you do. Also I only have EPOA and the absence of an LPA for Health and Welfare may be a problem in the future. I’m wondering if I should apply to be his Deputy to try and circumvent this? Thank you for any advice!
     
  17. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,892
    Male
    North Manchester

    Health and welfare deputyships are extremely rare, the COP prefer to use a unique court application to resolve any contention relating to H&W.
     
  18. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    10,222
    Female
    South coast
    Try and look pass the appearance of the home. Decor is of less importance than the care.

    The home my mum was in looked shabby with tired, scratch furniture and at first glance seemed really depressing. It turned out to be the very best place for her as the carers were wonderful, but it took me a while to appreciate it.

    In the home mum was in we were allowed to take things in for her - the home said "if it will fit in her room, you can put it in her room", so we brought in her bedside cabinet, a chair that she had bought specially as it was comfortable, her bedspread and some pictures for her walls. The place looked much more cheerful after that.

    Please dont listen to the guilt monster and take your OH home. If he is needing nursing care and has challenging behaviour then this is beyond you now.
     
  19. Platinum

    Platinum Registered User

    Nov 7, 2017
    66
    Female
    South east
    Thanks Nitram. I ‘phoned the OPG and the chap I spoke to was very helpful. He said despite having registered the EPOA it was still possible to set up a LP for H&W if the PWD is able to sign. There are times when my other half will do this “in the moment” having explained it to him. I expect the certificate will be the stumbling block. Thanks for your advice as usual.
     
  20. Platinum

    Platinum Registered User

    Nov 7, 2017
    66
    Female
    South east
    Thank you for your valuable advice. I’m finding this very difficult. My mother died of dementia in residential care and I didn’t feel the same pressure but my father had died and the family home was sold so there was nowhere else to go. Perhaps it’s the difference in relationship or the fact I’m living in his house and visit him every day and do his personal care. He has had failed residential placements, two admissions to hospital and three months in a mental health unit all in a period of six months. His challenging behaviour occurred every time he moved, which was often, but he has been started on effective medication now and appears much more stable. He always wants to go home which I know is dementia but he has not really settled anywhere including the current placement. Perhaps some never settle. It’s all food for thought. Thanks for your help and advice.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.