1. Our next Q&A session is on the topic of Christmas and dementia.This time we want our Q&A to involve our resident experts, you! Share tips and advice on navigating Christmas here in this thread.

    Pop by and post your questions or if you prefer you can email your question to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll be happy to ask them on your behalf.
  1. Angela T

    Angela T Registered User

    Jul 13, 2014
    187
    France
    Hello,

    I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post... I have a question about the difference in the cost of care homes.

    I have now visited a number of care/nursing homes for my mother, who is in early stages of Alzheimer's, and the fees range from £700 to £1,300 (or more) per week.

    The majority of CHs/NHs were in the region of £700-£800 per week, but the NH I liked, and which has a room, is £1,300 a week. My mother actually needs nursing care (after a fall), so I haven't much choice. But that seems high compared to the others.

    Is this normal ? We are looking in Greater London (North).

    Thanks,
    Angela
     
  2. PeggySmith

    PeggySmith Registered User

    Apr 16, 2012
    1,683
    BANES
    Hi, just giving you a bump until someone who knows far more than I do comes along. I live in the South West where fees are less than the London area but I guess, the same principles apply. A nursing home will cost more than a residential care home but your mum should qualify for FNC (Funded Nursing Care) of about £110 a week to help towards the costs. She should also qualify for Attendance Allowance at the higher rate (£80 per weekish?).

    As for the difference in costs, I'm not entirely sure that anyone really knows the answer. When we were looking round 2 years ago, the fees ranged from £650 to £1100. One of the more expensive places was utterly dreadful. The most expensive was purpose built and looked nice but the care wasn't very good. In the end we went for the place where the carers smiled, were friendly and ever-present. It was the cheapest:confused:
     
  3. katie1

    katie1 Registered User

    Aug 5, 2014
    122
    Kendal Cumbria
    Don't you have to cancel the Attendance Allowance if someone goes into a Nursing Home?
    My Dad collapsed last Thursday, it was horrible but the ambulance people got him breathing again, he is now in hospital waiting for all sorts of assessments. He will never go home again now. Mum couldn't cope. His condition (Vascular Dementia) has deteriorated and the doctor said it was now cerebral dementia. Mum read the information on his higher level of AA and it said that if your circumstances changed that you must let them know.
    He will presumably now have the fast tracked CHC assessment because the doctor also told us that in his opinion he only has about 12 months to live as the condition is rapidly deteriorating.
    I presume the next step would be for a hospital social worker and discharge team to discharge him to an NHS Nursing home nearer his own home so making visiting easier.
    Its all been such a shock for us
    We though and hoped we/he would have longer
    He has been such a lovely Dad, and husband It is sad and a shock to see him wandering round the ward in hospital pyjamas disorientated and confused.
    I just want him to be settled somewhere safe near home so we can visit him more often.
    (mind you he did perk up today when I visited and took him some cakes and a bounty bar!!)
     
  4. PeggySmith

    PeggySmith Registered User

    Apr 16, 2012
    1,683
    BANES
    You get AA if self funded in a NH. If you get CHC then you lose AA and FNC.
     
  5. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,776
    Salford
    The prices you quote seem about right allowing for the south being more expensive that the north (higher wages and property price and all that). If you're self funding then it's up to you where you go, if the SS are paying then they will have a figure they are willing to pay and anything over that will have to be paid as a "top up".
    As with most things in life price isn't necessarily a guarantee of quality but it's pretty easy to google a care home and look for any positives or negatives the link to the cqc is below so you can see how the homes is rated.
    Practical advise aside I'm sorry to hear your bad news and wish you all the best.
    K

    http://www.cqc.org.uk/
     
  6. Angela T

    Angela T Registered User

    Jul 13, 2014
    187
    France
    Thank you PeggySmith. Yes my mother will get the FNC - do I apply for that, or does the NH ? and I must apply for Attendance Allowance at the higher rate.

    I agree that cost is no guarantee of good care, and I'm less keen on the purpose built places - they feel less like home. I have no choice for the moment, mother needs the extra care, she is not mobile. I have her on a waiting list at a lovely CH, which is about half the cost - hopefully, she can move there when she recovers a bit.
     
  7. Angela T

    Angela T Registered User

    Jul 13, 2014
    187
    France
    yes that is what I understand also.
     
  8. Angela T

    Angela T Registered User

    Jul 13, 2014
    187
    France
    dear Katie1,

    I'm so sorry about your dad. it IS so hard, such a shock, seeing your lovely dad confused in hospital and being told he is rapidly deteriorating. I hope you can find a nice NH for him soon,

    Angela
     
  9. Angela T

    Angela T Registered User

    Jul 13, 2014
    187
    France
    Thank you Kevin1 for the practical advice.

    My mother was in a CH and escaped twice in 2 weeks, the second time through an unlocked door on to a 1st floor balcony, from which she fell ! The said CH has good reviews from the CQC, and I thought it was fine.

    It is difficult to get it right...
     
  10. 2intrepid

    2intrepid Registered User

    Mar 4, 2015
    1
    hi I m new on here and don t understand all the abbreviations. could you tell me what CHC and FNC are. thanks.
     
  11. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,264
    Male
    North Manchester
    "...hi I m new on here and don t understand all the abbreviations. could you tell me what CHC and FNC are...."

    Complete list of common abbreviations >>>HERE<<<
     
  12. KingB

    KingB Registered User

    May 8, 2011
    255
    Berkshire
    CQC report can be misleading. My parents have been in a nursing home which had quite a damning CQC report, but I know from my regular visits and from my parents' reactiojn to the staff that it is a wonderful home and the staff bonded with my parents in a very genuine and caring way. If I went by the CQC report I would be worried, whereas by experience I know it is great. I think its best to visit a variety of homes and go by gut feeling
     
  13. Angela T

    Angela T Registered User

    Jul 13, 2014
    187
    France
    Yes KingB I agree.

    I would never rely on the CQC report - the most important thing is visiting, and if possible, knowing others who have been in the care/nursing home.

    I have visited a range of homes for my mother - some feel right, others not so much.
     
  14. southlucia

    southlucia Registered User

    Dec 19, 2011
    166
    Although my father’s nursing home is slightly cheaper, the majority of homes I looked at in Greater London (west) were around the price you quote.

    With regards to FNC, I’d advise that you check with the NH that they haven’t already factored that in. I was told the rate before my dad moved in, only to be told afterwards that the FNC had already been deducted. Dad was receiving nursing care before he was assessed, and once eligible for FNC I’d assumed this would benefit him. It didn’t because the rate remained the same for my dad, but the home received the FNC. I quizzed the manager about this. She claimed it would “sound too much if they quoted the price before FNC was deducted”.
    My response was “ you’ve conned me”.
     
  15. Angela T

    Angela T Registered User

    Jul 13, 2014
    187
    France
    Hi Southlucia,

    I think the manager of the Nursing Home was upfront about the fees. The price quoted was £1,310, ie: £1,200 plus FNC of £110.
     
  16. Wirralson

    Wirralson Account Closed

    May 30, 2012
    658
    Short answer, for the areas I'd include as Greater London North (NW4, N6, N8, N!0, N20 etc...) those are pretty typical. (Currently an issue I have to look at)
     
  17. Angela T

    Angela T Registered User

    Jul 13, 2014
    187
    France
    Thank you Wirralson,

    I was surprised at the difference in fees, so thank you all for your replies !
     
  18. Wirralson

    Wirralson Account Closed

    May 30, 2012
    658
    #18 Wirralson, Mar 12, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
    Not that unusual. A couple of acquaintances run care homes (not in London), and the difference in fees (and overheads) can be considerable. It's worthwhile looking a staffing ratios per shift, quality of surroundings, quality of food etc. High fees are not necessarily the best indicator of quality.

    W
     
  19. katie1

    katie1 Registered User

    Aug 5, 2014
    122
    Kendal Cumbria

    I have posted this question elsewhere but maybe here would be more applicable
    Dad is now in a good Nursing Home, and has got NHS CHC funding I asked how much that came to and was told £650 per week
    However if in three months time he does not continue to receive this funding and has to self fund(somehow) I have found out that the weekly cost is £850 for the same room same food same carers same nurses (the FNC is paid on top of this) same activities and so on, so what exactly is the extra £200 per week for??!
    He's only been there a week and I don't want to annoy them but I am going to ask!
     
  20. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    I can tell you what they will almost certainly say: that the NHS (and LAs if we were talking about funding when CHC wasn't involved) get a discount because of block booking and volume discounts. I'm not saying this is entirely untrue, but if you were a home and were told by the purchaser of maybe 25% to 50% of your beds: this is all we will pay, and if you don't agree, you won't get these people, what do you think you would say? I totally understand why it happens, I don't even blame the NHS and LAs for being the biggest buyer and thus having the power, because they are operating under massive budget crunches, but it isn't fair. Although in truth, nothing about dementia is fair. I can understand it and don't get massively irritated by it because there aren't unlimited funds, but it isn't fair.

    In an ideal world this wouldn't happen but it isn't an ideal world. If all homes were publicly owned, and thus it was possible to mandate a rate, I'm sure there would be inefficiencies that would cause the rate to be high and that would mean everyone would be paying more. Look at the NHS: that's publicly funded but I don't think anyone would say they didn't have problems with inefficiencies - it's the nature of a bureaucracy

    Unlike some people I don't believe that most homes operate on a massive profit margin: providing care is expensive. In truth I might be happier about higher rates if carers (that is the staff) in these home were paid a fair wage: I think a fair wage translates into better care.

    -- climbs off soap box.
     

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