Care Home Contract

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Chrissyan, Sep 27, 2015.

  1. Chrissyan

    Chrissyan Registered User

    Aug 9, 2007
    570
    N E England
    On Thursday my Dad finally went into care eight years after his diagnosis of VAD. He is in a lovely brand new, purpose built care home, of my choice. :) The care home is part of a small local chain. It was arranged rather suddenly and his social worker was off work on leave until tomorrow, hopefully we will get partial funding.

    I was given a contract to sign on Friday (which I haven't done yet) and I wanted to ask forum members about the clauses in it, it seems very harsh to me and I wondered how it compared to other care home contracts. Below I have posted the point that are bothering me, or I think are unfair and would like to know what other posters thought:

    IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR THE REPRESENTATIVE
    By signing this agreement on the Resident's behalf, the Terms will apply to you in the same way as they apply to the Resident. You will be personally bound by the Terms. You will

    provide reasonable and satisfactory written evidence to the Home of your authority to act on behalf of a Resident before or in any event not later than seven (7) days from the date of this

    agreement, but if you fail to do so, you accept that you will be deemed to have the necessary authority to act for the Resident and that you will be and will remain personally liable for all

    the obligations of the resident under this agreement, including, without limitation the payment of fees.

    OUR CHARGES
    Fees or contributions payable by you are to be paid 4 weekly in advance by direct debit. A direct debit mandate form must be signed before admission. No other method of payment will

    be accepted including cash. If nevertheless payment is made by any method other than by direct debit the Home will have to charge you an extra £25.00 per week to cover administration

    expenses. This additional administration fee will also apply to any accounts operating in arrears.
    PRIVATE PAYING RESIDENTS
    If payment is not received by the due date of invoice the Company reserves the right to charge a late payment fee of £10.00 per day and interest at 10% over Royal Bank of Scotland

    base rate calculated on a daily basis until payment plus any out of pocket expenses including legal costs for recovery, both before and after any proceedings for recovery are any out of

    pocket expenses including legal costs for recovery, both before and after any proceedings for recovery are issued. on an indemnity basis.

    ABSENCES
    Should you at any time require hospital treatment the Home will retain the Room for you Our charges remain due to be paid in full throughout the duration. Should the duration of the

    hospital stay exceed a total of 6 weeks or (42 days), then a 20% reduction our charges will be applied. Each hospital stay is separate. Should you return to the Home for 1 night, then

    need to return to hospital, then this would constitute an absence beginning from day 1 again.

    It is your/your family's responsibility to remove all personal items, including Room Failure to do this may result in the items being removed and a cost being incurred The cost of removal

    of items depends upon the number of items and the size of the items being removed, however, this cost will not exceed £200.00. The Home will not be liable for any loss of or damage to

    such items
     
  2. Soobee

    Soobee Registered User

    Aug 22, 2009
    2,734
    South
    I don't know whether that is particularly harsh. I think it's quite common to charge whilst the resident is in hospital.

    Does the contract say what happens on moving out or death of the resident? One of mum's care homes wanted a month's notice and tried to enforce it even though we'd had to move her on a safeguarding issue. Another of the homes said you would have to pay for the week following death.
     
  3. Chrissyan

    Chrissyan Registered User

    Aug 9, 2007
    570
    N E England
    Thanks for the reply Soobee, Considering they are providing no meals, laundry service or anything else while a resident is in hospital, I think it is a complete rip off that they charge full fees :mad:

    There is no mention of death:confused:
     
  4. Soobee

    Soobee Registered User

    Aug 22, 2009
    2,734
    South
    They know we don't have much choice but to sign up, or find somewhere else.

    To be fair, they still have to get the same amount of food in for the week and employ the staff whether or not a particular resident is there or not. So they could say that the costs aren't any different perhaps?
     
  5. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,020
    Male
    North Manchester
    "It was arranged rather suddenly and his social worker was off work on leave until tomorrow, hopefully we will get partial funding."

    If you Dad's assets are below the lower limit of £14250 the LA should pay all of the fee if they assess him as requiring residential care, up to the upper limit of £23250 there is a sliding scale of contribution by the resident, above the upper there is no financial help.

    If your Dad's assets are below the upper limit the contract is with the LA and you should not sign anything.

    Talk to the social worker.

    Have a look at http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...es-ombudsman&p=1168890&viewfull=1#post1168890
     
  6. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,780
    Salford
    It's all just a load of stuff and nonsense really.
    Paragraphs 1,2,3 & 4 just say you're the guarantor for the costs, the phrase "but if you fail to do so, you accept that you will be deemed to have the necessary authority to act for the Resident " is in effect saying prove you have a POA and if you don't prove it we'll act like you do anyway.
    The second bit about the charges say "No other method of payment will be accepted including cash. If nevertheless payment is made by any method other than by direct debit the Home will have to charge you" so they don't accept anything other than a DD but there's a charge if you pay any other way which isn't possible as they only accept DD's.
    I don't think the hospital charging is too unfair, yes, the home do save a bit of money but only the meals and laundry really, heating, lighting, business rates, staff costs all the big bills are the same for the home.
    It's just a load of legalise, it's as well you read it but basically they just want you to guarantee they'll get paid. It's taken nearly 3 years to unravel my late mother's somewhat complex financial arrangements, would it be fair if a home had to wait that long? As said if the assets are under the limit sign nothing.
    K
     
  7. Chrissyan

    Chrissyan Registered User

    Aug 9, 2007
    570
    N E England
    Thank you so much Nitram & KevinL. :) Dad does own his own house(well half of it, when my Mum died 15 years ago she left her half of the property to myself & my brother) so no doubt they will want that when it is sold.:rolleyes:
     
  8. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,780
    Salford
    Sell the house and do a 50% to dad, 25% to you and your brother split. Then he'll self fund until about £25k is left when the council will start to chip in, at £14k they pick up the whole bill. Alternatively you could rent it out and after expenses do the same split with the profits, the council would have to take a deferred payment but if you think property values are going to keep going up then it's an option, after your dad's half (less £14k) goes in fee the council has to swallow the loss.
    Provided it's been done properly and they're tenants in common you & bro own half the house and nothing short of a court order can make you sell, you're holding all the cards.
    K
     
  9. Chrissyan

    Chrissyan Registered User

    Aug 9, 2007
    570
    N E England
    Thank you so much kevinl, you have been very helpful:) Yes it has been done properly and it is tenants in common. It is a lovely house, I would have preferred to let it out, but unfortunately is not in any state to be let out, just for a start the whole central heating system needs urgently replacing.:eek:

    It will be a few weeks before I can get it on the market as it is full of stuff, it needs a huge clear out involving several skips and a bit of a tart up here & there.:rolleyes:
     
  10. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,046
    Staffs
    It's not that the LA will want it rather your Dad will have the money to pay for his own care.

    A not so nice question you have to ask yourself is will his total assets be enough to keep him in the home you have chosen for the rest of his life? If not it is doubtful the LA will automatically "swallow the loss" (as stated above) when the assets fall to the upper limit.

    Apart from taking your Dad's pensions they will also have a budget and from reading on here that rarely stretches to a "lovely brand new, purpose built care home" so be prepared to have to pay some kind of top up.:(

    If the LA thinks that your Dad's share of the house has enough value you can ask them to enter into a deferred payment scheme where they pay the costs and then recoup the money when your Dad dies. All 3 of you would have to agree to this and may mean that you never have to sell the house if that is what you want.

    As others have said the CH contract seems fairly standard.
    :)
     
  11. Chrissyan

    Chrissyan Registered User

    Aug 9, 2007
    570
    N E England
    Thanks PeterR :) Whether Dad's finances can keep him for the rest of his life? There are many variables, mainly how long he lives, but also what we get from selling the house. Dad is now 89 and very frail & breathless and anaemic, I can't see him living for year & years yet, but of course who knows

    I will ask for a deferred payment agreement thanks, but only until the house is sold. just need to find, outside of my full time job, the time to clear it.:rolleyes:

    I don't mind if there if is a top up, I am so happy to have him in there.:)

    The fees for the home are £650 per week, I am not sure how that compares with the fees other homes charge in the NE of England
     
  12. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,046
    Staffs
    #12 Pete R, Sep 28, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
    I have to say that is an excellent price for one that you are happy with.:)

    If your Dad has assets below £23250 (not including the house) the LA will pay towards the CH for 12 weeks which gives you time to sell the house.

    I would hold off signing the contract but continue to pay the fees till you have spoken to the SW.
    :)
     
  13. Chrissyan

    Chrissyan Registered User

    Aug 9, 2007
    570
    N E England
    Thank you Peter.:) His his savings are well below £23, 250 around £17,000.

    The care home opened 2½ weeks ago, it has 77 beds over three floors and now has about 15 residents. I think it is the 'honeymoon' period, I fully expect them to put up their fees once they get established in the town :rolleyes:

    I have found out that a comparable one in town, purpose built two years ago, although not as nice as doesn't have the lovely gardens for one, charge £700 per week so I guess initially they are trying to under cut them ;)
     
  14. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,708
    Female
    London
    I don't think it's unreasonable to be asked to continue paying fo a room if someone is in hospital. If you're renting somewhere you can't say to your landlord that you were in hospital or go on holiday for 4 weeks so don't want to pay for that period. The money is to keep the room for him, otherwise you might come back and find you have none! Why should a care home miss out because of hospital stays? They are not their fault either!
     

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