Can you sue a bank for stress?

[Tender Face]

(Nada, you don't know how much restraint I'm using not to 'name and shame' - frankly the catalogue of errors and ignorance with mum's bank re POA/EPA deserves national press!)

I though I'd coped quite calmly with bad/conflicting/wrong advice prior to registering EPA ... stayed fairly sane when they froze her accounts unnecessarily .... even helped some of the local branch staff out providing links from the Guardianship office I'd found thru TP members ... allowed them to believe they had more powers than governmental departments ..... ran up my own overdraft charges to subsidise mum when they denied her or me access to her own money ..... learnt to laugh when they'd 'lost' the paperwork (again) ..... waited patiently for even a cheque book to materialise so I could at least try to keep mum's affairs seperate from my own .... and cut down on the accounting for the COP...... fretted myself about explaining to mum she wouldn't have her 'own' card anymore .......

TODAY?

While I was at work today she's had a phone call from the bank - inviting her in to discuss her accounts .....?? This same branch saw fit to 'freeze' her accounts months ago and didn't care no-one had access to her money until THEY sorted out THEIR paperwork (mum's paperwork actually which THEY lost and I had to duplicate) ......... coz I dared mention I thought she needed protection ......... protection from her bank, methinks ..... who registered the registered EPA on their own system how long ago?.... when I made yet another personal visit to watch them hit the 'send key'? Or perhaps they're worried how someone knew to transfer excess funds from her current account into her high interest savings ......?

I give in!!!!!

Karen, x

 

[jenniferpa]

Left hand and right hand, and no brain connecting them.

You have all my sympathies. I must say, I'm impressed your mum remembered that they had called: mine wouldn't have the fogiest.

Jennifer

 

[Grannie G]

Dear Karen.
Name and shame the branch to Head Office. I had this with a.n.other bank with my mother. I wrote to Head office, had a personal home visit from a managing director and a humble apology.
Someone had their wrists slapped.
Love Sylvia x

 

[Tender Face]

Hi Jennifer, hope you'll sympathise when I find the eed-jit made the call and I'm serving time for it ....

Mum remembers because it made her worry (it's not exactly the best of weeks anyway and she's already agitated - just her and my bad luck on that front) - she told the caller 'my daughter deals with all this' - so of course, bank have put in her mind that I've been telling her porkies and her bank accounts aren't in order .... (several thousand pounds better in order in a matter of months, actually - I know the COP will believe me but how to get my mother to?)

You're right, Sylvia - only it's not just about wrist slapping ... it's trying to find a way to make sure no-one else goes thru this sorry affair ... it's all stressful enough .... if High Street/national bank staff can't understand accounts being 'flagged' with EPA what chance we got againt the con-merchants? Yup, even THAT thought crossed my mind tonight ......

K, x

 

[Michael E]

I suggest you print out this thread and send it to the MD or CE of the bank asking for an explanation and copy the letter to which ever newspaper you read - the features editor... Explaining that TP is a public forum

 

[jenniferpa]

Don't worry Karen: I'll bake you a cake with a file in it.

On a more serious note, I suspect this was one of those random "selling" calls that all banks make. I imagine the account lists are submitted to the selling arm months in advance, and all they're given is the name and phone number: no real details. Not a valid excuse I know. Have you changed the telephone number on your Mother's contact details? It might be worthwhile.

Jennifer

 

[Tender Face]

Thanks Jennifer .... I asked for 'no marketing' months back - just on third party mandate - before any mention of EPA being registered ... and if THEY think even a hint of 'mental incapacity' means they can freeze accounts without notice how come they can't cope being so 'immediate' with their marketing lists?

I think there's case of Data Protection law being broken here - their information is NOT up-to-date and accurate and fit for purpose .... they acted quick enough when I pointed out mum wasn't .......

Save the file .. for some humble bank manager (or CE) needs it when I've finished with them .....

K,

 

[Helena]

Tender Face

Naming and shaming them will likely be the only way this bank will wake up

I would also send a strong complaint to the Banking Ombudsman too

I am in the process of screaming blue murder and suing 2 Building Societies whose failure to deal correctly and promptly with probate valuation requests and deal with D20s has cost me 1K in lost rent from the people who are buying my Mothers house and wanted to rent it prior to completion

There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for any Bank or Financial Institution to make such a hash of an EPA registered or unregistered

Sadly I doubt even complaining to their CEO will sort things because the problems often stem from Head Office

 

[bernie]

to be honest Power of Attorney/Enduring Power of Attorner are very complicated issues.

If the EPA was not registered and your mother became mentally incapacited I think an unregistered EPA no longer has any validity.

The bank has to look after your mother's best interests and has to ensure everything is lawful.

The general rule is if in doubt freeze the account, bills etc can be paid later and an apology issued. If money is paid away incorrectly the bank may be at a financial loss as there is no guarantee that money paid away incorrectly can be recovered.

The whole issue is too complicated for branch staff to understand, branch staff these days are not like branch staff of say 20 years ago but merely salemen, if there are no sales opportunities they are not interested.

I work for the RBS group and agree general training levels/competance of staff is appalling (as are staff salaries and status compared with when I started).

Just my thoughts, whilst sympathising with you this is the was things are in the modern world/banking systen.

 

[Lucille]

Hi Karen

There was a huge report in yesterday's Independent about people suing for bank charges (albeit for overdrafts and the like). I think the experience you've had to go through is appalling and, the fact bernie states that bank staff aren't trained properly is more power to your elbow. The bank - whose name you dare not speak - should be named and shamed. (Although I think I know which one it is!)

They have no ethics, despite the c**p they spout.

Hope you get something sorted.

 

[Bets]

Hi Bernie,

Forgive me, but I think an EPA (Enduring Power of Attorney) can be completed, signed and witnessed while the person still understands what that entails, and only needs to be registered when they can no longer understand and/or manage their own affairs. It doesn't lapse when that happens. Not to be confused with Power of Attorney which only lasts as long as the person concerned understands and consents to someone else holding it.

Bets

 

[bernie]

My understanding is that if the person who has given an EPA becomes mentally incapacited, and is no longer capable of looking after their own financial affairs the person who is appointed as the Attorney is legally bound to get the document registered and advise the Next of Kin that they are doing so.

If the bank are told that the person has become mentally incapacited and the document has not been registered Iwould not be surprised if they froze the persons accounts to protect the persons interests.

Whether the EPA is acceptable to be used during the period between the registration being applied for and being completed I don't know and I suspect the branch would have to get legal guidance.

My understanding again is that the EPA does not lapse with mental incapacity it must be registered.

 

[Tender Face]

Hi Bernie - thanks for your comments - as an 'ex-banker' myself it's the 'modern banking world' and it's inability to implement a fairly simple process that I can't get my head round - why, if working for a relatively small building society many years can I recall 'Account Warning' or 'flags' popping up on accounts prompting a teller or head office clerk "Joint Signatures"/ "Third Party mandate held" etc (which would also mean accounts could be extracted from marketing lists) can modern banking systems - not have something similar? I suspect they do but POAs/EPAs etc seem to be 'ignored' ???? - when the 'category' of customers we are talking about here need the very highest levels of customer care? (Oops that phrase is probably showing how old-fashioned I am!!! )

I appreciate this IS a complex area and hardly constitutes a 'main element' of banking business .... as such I wouldn't suggest that global training for all staff would be appropriate - but a 'warning' on an account prompting any member of staff to 'Refer to such-and-such' surely isn't a lot to ask?

Whilst financial concerns may not always be priority round here, for me, it's another aspect of 'dementia care' found sadly lacking...

I'll be doing my bit to raise awareness amongst the finance institutions, you can rest assured!!!!!

Love, Karen, x

(PS: Thought occurred to me that rather than 'name and shame' I could ask for a donation to the AS? Or could I then be accused of blackmail? )