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Can SW prevent care home transfer- self funding

Jenni2777

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
11
Hi
I’m in desperate need for advise, dad 81 lining in England,has Lewy body dementia and Parkinson’s, I feel I’m at my wits end with Social worker.
I feel they are constantly changing their mind within a few days. Dad has unsettled behaviour at night due to hallucinations. He was living independently at his own home . Sw said this was no longer possible he need someone to be there on the night , he was out into respite care in a carehome . They first suggested very sheltered living , then the care home couldn’t cope with him trying to escape and said he needs full time care , he is always like this in hospitals and homes but not at his own home or when stayed at mine.
we had found a beautiful care home in wales sea views etc that are willing to take him ( cross border) he is self funding and receives no financial help from LA,to cut a long story short he was very unhappy, unsettled in the care home and walked out in the night with his bags packed ( CH failed to set door alarms) .
Last week the move to the home in wales was going ahead, transfer meetings had taken place by SW
After the escape from the CH , SW said he was okay to stop at home. the following day SW came round his house to assess him and basically my dad asked her to leave as she was upsetting him because she wanted to take him back to the care home , he refused to go.
Now due to this SW has now said she is refusing the move to wales ( this is a suitable EMI home ) due to the LA providing the funding . The do not currently provide any funding to him and we are arranging our own transfer . Before this she said he could chose to go anywhere even out of LA because he was self funding .
Can they do this if he is self funding , I feel I am in a losing battle . I feel I have annoyed the Sw , as I have been asking for care plans etc , no assessment has been done by his CPN , the only assessment is mental capacity. We ask to see this but they refuse and my dad hasn’t even had sight of any of this. I am now reporting Sw
. I feel the CH in wales would be so beneficial for his mental health and well-being and he really wants to go . What can I do ?
 

Bunty2410

Registered User
Apr 28, 2020
55
So sorry for your situation. what comes to mind is do you have a registered POA for your fathers health and wellbeing? The CP person and SW should be candid with you to enable you to act in your fathers best interest. If you dont have both POAs you need to seriously consider arranging thsee.
Is SW trying to prevent the move due to the current Pandemic to mitigate against potential risk of cross infection between two high risk areas?
While I don’t have answers maybe these questions will guide you🙂
 

Jenni2777

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
11
So sorry for your situation. what comes to mind is do you have a registered POA for your fathers health and wellbeing? The CP person and SW should be candid with you to enable you to act in your fathers best interest. If you dont have both POAs you need to seriously consider arranging thsee.
Is SW trying to prevent the move due to the current Pandemic to mitigate against potential risk of cross infection between two high risk areas?
While I don’t have answers maybe these questions will guide you🙂
Thankyou for your reply , my sister only has POA financial affairs , SW said it’s too late to apply for the health and well-being, we are looking into applying while he is living at home again . The care home in wales are fine with him moving to them , there no mention of Covid , I know he will self isolate when he gets there. He was due to go this week. Dads family are currently looking after him at home he needs 24 hour care ,so I don’t know if I can just take him to the new home without SW permission.
 

lemonbalm

Registered User
May 21, 2018
664
Hello @Jenni2777 . I don't see why you would need permission from Social Services if your Dad is self funding. What does the manager of the care home you are intending to move him into have to say about it? Surely they would know if there were any issues to prevent the move?
 

Bunty2410

Registered User
Apr 28, 2020
55
Thankyou for your reply , my sister only has POA financial affairs , SW said it’s too late to apply for the health and well-being, we are looking into applying while he is living at home again . The care home in wales are fine with him moving to them , there no mention of Covid , I know he will self isolate when he gets there. He was due to go this week. Dads family are currently looking after him at home he needs 24 hour care ,so I don’t know if I can just take him to the new home without SW permission.
If he was able to leave the home ie not in a locked unit, is he deemed to have capacity?
 

Rosettastone57

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
1,370
Thankyou for your reply , my sister only has POA financial affairs , SW said it’s too late to apply for the health and well-being, we are looking into applying while he is living at home again . The care home in wales are fine with him moving to them , there no mention of Covid , I know he will self isolate when he gets there. He was due to go this week. Dads family are currently looking after him at home he needs 24 hour care ,so I don’t know if I can just take him to the new home without SW permission.
Frankly I'm surprised social services are even interested if your father is self funding. I arranged for my mother in law to go into care and there was no social service involvement whatsoever as she was a self funder. I didn't even notify our local social service department when she finally moved and the care home didn't ask about any involvement from them either as they weren't going to pay.
 

Sarasa

Registered User
Apr 13, 2018
1,796
If you are self-funding I would think the Social Worker can only advise. I wonder if your father suggested that he was being moved against his will and the social worker thought he had capacity to remain at home, or if she thinks his needs are so complex the home in Wales wouldn't be suitable even if they think they can take him. Can you contact them tomorrow and try to get to the bottom of it. Like other posters I thought if you were self-funding then the social workers do not need to be involved.
 

lollyc

Registered User
Sep 9, 2020
34
Have to agree with others. Usually just the mention of Self-funding is sufficient for "the system" to abandon you to your fate. You are clearly moving your father to a perfectly appropriate place for his needs, so there can be no welfare concerns. I can't see why the SW should, or could, object.
 

Jenni2777

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
11
If you are self-funding I would think the Social Worker can only advise. I wonder if your father suggested that he was being moved against his will and the social worker thought he had capacity to remain at home, or if she thinks his needs are so complex the home in Wales wouldn't be suitable even if they think they can take him. Can you contact them tomorrow and try to get to the bottom of it. Like other posters I thought if you were self-funding then the social workers do not need to be involved.
This is why I don’t know why they are involved they seem to put up barriers every time . He has a dols, which I don’t know if that is still eligible when he’s in his own home. He lives alone they have arranged a night carer which we pay for , over the weekend he has come to stop at mine as we are the only household who has some one here 24/7 . I live in a different county to the social workers. SW has been speaking to the new care home and also the previous care home so they are up to date with his needs . Sometimes I feel my head will explode 🤯
 

Jenni2777

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
11
Have to agree with others. Usually just the mention of Self-funding is sufficient for "the system" to abandon you to your fate. You are clearly moving your father to a perfectly appropriate place for his needs, so there can be no welfare concerns. I can't see why the SW should, or could, object.
Do you think it’s because he is on a care package from when he came out of hospital, he has 3 carers a day which we don’t pay for and 1 night carer which we do
 

Bunty2410

Registered User
Apr 28, 2020
55
The SW is right in that if there is lack of capacity a LPA for Health cannot be applied for. Just be wary that the SW could apply for an independent Advocate to act in you Dads best interest if it was their opinion you were not acting in his best interest.
My mum was in hospital 2 months ago after breaking her leg, while there, they issued a DOLs, when I spoke to the hospital Social Worker although my sister and I have both LPAs because I didn’t answer his myriad of questions to his satisfaction he appointed an advocate to act for her while an inpatient. On discharge he stated that as she was going home on discharge he would remove the DOLs but had she been going to a residential establishment he would have detained her for 6 months. If you are in your own home a DOLs would not be applicable
 

Jenni2777

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
11
The SW is right in that if there is lack of capacity a LPA for Health cannot be applied for. Just be wary that the SW could apply for an independent Advocate to act in you Dads best interest if it was their opinion you were not acting in his best interest.
My mum was in hospital 2 months ago after breaking her leg, while there, they issued a DOLs, when I spoke to the hospital Social Worker although my sister and I have both LPAs because I didn’t answer his myriad of questions to his satisfaction he appointed an advocate to act for her while an inpatient. On discharge he stated that as she was going home on discharge he would remove the DOLs but had she been going to a residential establishment he would have detained her for 6 months. If you are in your own home a DOLs would not be applicable
 

Jenni2777

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
11
We are looking into the court of protection, I never even knew he had a dols until me and sw had a meeting , this was when as soon as he went into the care home and I said he wants to stop at home are there any other options , sw said he can’t “ he has a dols” he only went in for a respite so we could fix his toilet and flooring ! This turned from being able to go home when things were repaired to very sheltered living , to full care 24/7 in the space of 5 days . They are demanding he goes back into the care home as his home isn’t suitable, he told them he doesn’t want to go back there .
I think they will turn up to take him even though various family members are giving 24 care between us
 

lollyc

Registered User
Sep 9, 2020
34
Do you think it’s because he is on a care package from when he came out of hospital, he has 3 carers a day which we don’t pay for and 1 night carer which we do
We are looking into the court of protection, I never even knew he had a dols until me and sw had a meeting , this was when as soon as he went into the care home and I said he wants to stop at home are there any other options , sw said he can’t “ he has a dols” he only went in for a respite so we could fix his toilet and flooring ! This turned from being able to go home when things were repaired to very sheltered living , to full care 24/7 in the space of 5 days . They are demanding he goes back into the care home as his home isn’t suitable, he told them he doesn’t want to go back there .
I think they will turn up to take him even though various family members are giving 24 care between us
I'm not surprised you feel your head will explode. If you were planning to dump your Dad back at home, with no support, I could see the problem. But you're not. SW wants him in a care home, so do you... just a different one.
I'm not sure why they are covering his daytime care costs, if he is self funding.However, Mum broke her leg in early April and was eventually discharged home with a funded care package, presumably as she wasn't allowed to weightbear and was effectively bedbound. I was told it was due to Covid, and that it was likely to end in August, tho' a date was never confirmed. As it was I ended the care sooner, but , for all I know, they would still be paying it now. Dementia is bad enough, without the constant battling against bureaucracy.
 

Bunty2410

Registered User
Apr 28, 2020
55
We are looking into the court of protection, I never even knew he had a dols until me and sw had a meeting , this was when as soon as he went into the care home and I said he wants to stop at home are there any other options , sw said he can’t “ he has a dols” he only went in for a respite so we could fix his toilet and flooring ! This turned from being able to go home when things were repaired to very sheltered living , to full care 24/7 in the space of 5 days . They are demanding he goes back into the care home as his home isn’t suitable, he told them he doesn’t want to go back there .
I think they will turn up to take him even though various family members are giving 24 care between us
I know that SS will fund so many weeks of care post discharge while you sort self funding care, is this why they are funding some care?
 

Alex54

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
323
Newtown, Wales
Never trust social services, they have different priorities from the family, such as the pressure of caseloads and funding.

Email the social worker and ask them to itemise the reasons why they object to the move to the welsh care home.

Make sure you have a copy of the care plan from social services. If you are not happy with the plan then raise the issues by email pointing out why.

Always make sure that the social worker is following the care plan and highlight when they deviate from the plan.

Above all else, always have everything in writing (i.e. by email), otherwise, you will find social services will take control.
 

prittlewell

Registered User
Jan 28, 2020
36
When first going into care, there is a period of disregard, where the finances are not taken into account, and the cost is paid by social services. I believe this is 13 weeks.
When Mum went into a home, SS wanted to put her into a home that accepted the amount SS would pay, but we wanted her in a better home, and had to pay the top up of £250 per week.
Could it be the home you want her to go to is more expensive? If so, can you offer to pay the top up?
Mum was ‘borderline’ when she granted us the HW PoA, but her neighbour who knew her well acted as certificate provider, and Mum knew what she was signing at the time, although probably forgot it 15 minutes later.

As someone said, when Mum went self funding after the 13 week period, it was a case of ‘see you in 7 years if she is still alive and the money runs out’ !!

In fact, a year later, I had an issue with the home, and had to fight like hell to get SS to intervene, as they did not want to know. They have now agreed to put Mum ‘on their books‘, and they pay the home and bill us. This way, if there is an issue with the home, we can complain to SS. As a self funder, if you do not go through SS, and there is an issue with the home, there is nowhere to complain to, other than the home itself !!!
 
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Jenni2777

Registered User
Sep 20, 2020
11
Never trust social services, they have different priorities from the family, such as the pressure of caseloads and funding.

Email the social worker and ask them to itemise the reasons why they object to the move to the welsh care home.

Make sure you have a copy of the care plan from social services. If you are not happy with the plan then raise the issues by email pointing out why.

Always make sure that the social worker is following the care plan and highlight when they deviate from the plan.

Above all else, always have everything in writing (i.e. by email), otherwise, you will find social services will take control.