1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

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Can anyone clarify this for us?

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by kenaidog, Sep 15, 2015.

  1. kenaidog

    kenaidog Registered User

    Apr 8, 2013
    164
    My mother i law is thinking about selling her house basically to put money in the bank, which i think is a stupid reason to move. Anyway first of all if the fil is not fully with it now could she sell without his permission?
    Also if she did sell that would make her self funding, well him actually as it is him that has the problems.So when he did have to actually go into a home would those in higher places want to know where his half of the gains had went .I dont know if im getting my point across here or not.
    so say that if she sold and downsized and was left with enough money wouldnt she have to pay any full rate for any care that she is currently getting a allowance for?
    And by law could she sell without having his permission as its unlikely he would be able to give it?
     
  2. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,489
    Female
    London
    So many questions.
    If they own a house together, his share will be financially assessed and if it's over £23,250 he'll be classed as self-funding whether the money is in the bank or tied up in the house. If the house is sold and the money gone into a joint account, half of it would be classed as his. If the money went into her account alone, that would be classed as deprivation if assets so she has to be very careful there. She wouldn't have to sell while she is living in it, but the council would ask for a deferred payment. Has she actually got POA for finances?
     
  3. kenaidog

    kenaidog Registered User

    Apr 8, 2013
    164
    No she hasnt, its too late to get that now for him1
     
  4. kenaidog

    kenaidog Registered User

    Apr 8, 2013
    164
    I think what im trying to say is that if they downsized then any money they made from the sale would have to be kept on his behalf woudlnt it. I mean it will come to a point when she probably will have to put him in a home if he survives that long.
    I worry that it will make him worse and it will, and this i have told her, it took him long enough to get used to where they are now and its 3 years on now and he is worse than then!
    So for any allowances she might have now towards at home costs for care and day care respite etc, woudlnt she have the pay the full rate as she would have more money!
    Plus she would not be able to use his money would she?




    /
     
  5. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,489
    Female
    London
    Someone who sells a house doesn't suddenly have more money, it's only there in a different form. For any financial assessments into his care, only his assets would be assessed. If jointly owned or in a joint account, half will be his. Your mum's own money will not be assessed nor will she have to use it for his care.
     
  6. kenaidog

    kenaidog Registered User

    Apr 8, 2013
    164
    Ok but his money would be wouldnt it? so that mean she could not spend his half of the costs and what about her rights in law to sell without his permission?
     
  7. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    9,336
    Female
    South coast
    If your MIL is living in the house that your FIL owns/part owns then the house is disregarded when the finances for care costs are calculated. If the house is sold then, you are right, what would be his share (usually half) would then be considered available for care fees. So, to sell the house solely in order to get money in the bank would be IMO a very bad idea - though I could understand that she may wish to downsize.

    The second question - would she be allowed to sell it, then I suspect that the answer is no. I take it from your post that he has lost capacity, so would not be able to sign documents. If your mum does not have either POA or Court of Protection deputyship then she cant sign for him either.
     
  8. kenaidog

    kenaidog Registered User

    Apr 8, 2013
    164
    Thanks, well put it this way he does not fully understand things now and he coudnt manage to sign no, And yes i have explained to her it is a very stupid idea, she wouldnt be downsizing as her bungalow is small already it would just be to free up cash to put in the bank as she says she has nothing behind her, but i have told her it makes no odds, she has a nice house and as long as she has a roof over her head and food on the table that is all that matter, and not to have money to waste as such.
     
  9. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    9,336
    Female
    South coast
    I am assuming that they are living in the bungalow ATM. If she did sell it where on earth would they live?
     
  10. kenaidog

    kenaidog Registered User

    Apr 8, 2013
    164
    Oh she wants to buy a flat. But she is one of those people who just keep on doing things to there house for no good reason other than for show, to me its completely pointless, he is nearly 80 and does not look so good right now, so moving him again will only make it worse for him and her at the end of the day!
     
  11. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    9,336
    Female
    South coast
    I think you are probably right. However, it could be a bit academic if she cant legally sell it and buy another home. I have COP deputyship for mum (I couldnt get POA for her and then she lost capacity and it was too late) and I am selling her bungalow, but I have noticed that one of the restrictions in the deputyship is that I cannot buy a property with her money. There must be a way round this if it were absolutely necessary, but I dont think it would be straightforward.

    Perhaps its time for a few little white lies to your MIL? ;):rolleyes:
     
  12. kenaidog

    kenaidog Registered User

    Apr 8, 2013
    164
    Not sure what you mean about white lies lol,But ive tried to explain to her the legal sides of what is his and hers and how it would be deemed because of the situation. But thanks so now i see that i would have to tell her that she would not be able to use his half to buy another house etc as he cannot give his permission.Im just trying to make her see that its a stupid thing to do to put herself in what might be seen as a compromising position.
     
  13. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    9,336
    Female
    South coast
    Oh, re the "white lies" - I just meant to say that she couldnt legally do it as he couldnt sign the documents without mentioning that there is probably a way round it......
     
  14. kenaidog

    kenaidog Registered User

    Apr 8, 2013
    164
    Ahh yes. thanks .
     
  15. LYN T

    LYN T Registered User

    Aug 30, 2012
    6,967
    Brixham Devon
    I THINK that if the house was sold and your MIL has LPA she would have to appoint a Trustee to act on behalf of your FIL (if he doesn't have capacity). From what I understand a Trustee can be anyone who knows your FIL.
     
  16. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,046
    Staffs
    #16 Pete R, Sep 17, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2015
    Both the bold parts in those statements are incorrect as the property would be disregarded if the MiL is still living in it.:confused:
     
  17. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,046
    Staffs
    If your FiL goes into care and once someone has the power to act for your FiL then your MiL could sell then and downsize. Half of the proceeds would become your FiL assets but under the New Care Act the LA have the discretion to allow him to use some of that to help buy the new property.
    :)
     

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