Can a person just be faking it?

[Boredhousewife]

How could you tell if a person is faking dementia? Or at least that they are pretending to be worse than they really are, to get attention?
I have posted about my Mum, just now. But I have also been talking to my sister on the phone. When my Mum talks to me, she is so confused and literally cannot work out how to get the overhead lights to turn on and off. My sister however has never seen this in her and tells me she suspects Mum to be putting it on because she knows I will patiently try to talk her through finding a light switch and turning it on. For example.
Mum's psychiatrists thinks she has capacity. So does her GP and social worker.
I had Mum to stay over Christmas. She was ok for a couple of days, but I noticed she was really clingy and followed me around everywhere. She appeared scared of my partner and kept asking when my children would be "going home" She hated it that I had to go out to my evening job. When I wanted to go an wash up the dishes, he asked me if I wanted her to go home seeing as I wasn't spending any time with her. On Xmas day she woke up in some sort of massive delusional episode where she said she had been poisoned by my two kids. We ended up in A&E for the whole day, where she was as happy as Larry all the day.
Can she be putting it on! If she is I think I might do something drastic as she has all but ruined my life these past 2 years.

 

[sistermillicent]

I can't say anything for definite, but I think if she is putting it on it is part of the illness in itself.

I can only go on my experience with my mum, she became so very self centred, no conversation was allowed to exist without her being at its very centre, no topic was relevant to her other than her topic, which would be about her - she needed all the attention in the room, as long as she got it she would be reasonably ok, but if my dad said anything nice to anyone else there was hell to pay.

She could come across as reasonable to other people outside home

Might this be a similar thing?

 

[Caroleca]

A little confusing

When you say that moms psych...doctor and ss think she has capacity....what does that mean? Capacity to fake? Has she been diagnosed? I hate to say it but it's possible that your sister has her head in the sand...how much time does she spend with your mom?
I know that it is not always easy for some family members to see or experience the same as you may....but if it is making you frantic...then you have to do something for yourself. If she is "putting it on" then she certainly has other mental issues. Maybe your sister needs to spend a few days with her....things may show up then!!! I would start writing down these things so you have a record of your experiences. If mom is "putting it on" because you r a pushover....that is terrible! You don't deserve that!

 

[Caroleca]

Yes Millicent...mom was the same! And still is to an extent. Sometimes she appears very lucid and that is what makes it so hard. ...what a horrible disease!!!

 

[Lottie134]

I kind of know where you are coming from. We have this problem with MIL. we can do our best to meet her needs, but it's her 'wants' where we have problems.
Her ideal would be either to move in with myself & her son or for her son to be with her 24/7, neither of which is going to happen.
She shows lots of signs of attention seeking behaviour & we've had a dreadful few months with her. As I posted before, we had a best interest meeting for her last Friday & managed to keep her out of 24 hour care by the skin of our teeth, but she's so vile & aggressive to OH, blaming him for trying to put her into a home.
We have begun to notice a pattern of behaviour forming though regarding her falls.
We booked a holiday to New York & she fell & broke her wrist. We booked a holiday to Florida for my 50th birthday, she had a fall the day before we went. We went to my nieces wedding ( which she wasn't happy about), she told OH not to have a drink (which luckily he didn't) & we had to go & get her off of the floor at 12.30am that night. She had another fall before our holiday last Sept & ended up in hospital for nearly the whole 3 weeks we were away. Can you see a pattern forming ? Yesterday OH & I were just going out for lunch & MIL carer rang to say she had found her on the kitchen floor, paramedics sent for, our lunch cancelled. What I don't understand is how a frail, 84 year old lady, can fall on a hard, tiled kitchen floor & not sustain any injuries, no bruises, bumps, scratches, nothing. But then she got what she 'wanted' , me there until the early evening. I guess I sound really bitchy, but this is just a really small example of what we are experiencing at the moment. I've given up with her. I do what I have to do to help OH but so much has happened & she has put us through so much & is so manipulative that I have no feelings left for her. I've started re living my life & not living on 'what if's' like we were doing. She is now refusing to go for respite which OH says means we won't get a holiday this year. This is just building up more resentment towards her. I could go on but really don't want to bore you all. Lol.

 

[juicy13]

I can't say anything for definite, but I think if she is putting it on it is part of the illness in itself.

I can only go on my experience with my mum, she became so very self centred, no conversation was allowed to exist without her being at its very centre, no topic was relevant to her other than her topic, which would be about her - she needed all the attention in the room, as long as she got it she would be reasonably ok, but if my dad said anything nice to anyone else there was hell to pay.

She could come across as reasonable to other people outside home

Might this be a similar thing?

My mum is the very same, everything has to be about her and no one can have a conversation except her and like you say if my dad says anything nice to other people there is hell to pay as she accuses him of sleeping with them, If i go out and leave my boyfriend with her she speaks to him fine, no confusion, no anger just sensible conversation, she even makes him a cup of coffee and yet if I am at home she is 'unable' to make coffee or do anything and I do it all for her.

 

[Boredhousewife]

I am not alone! Thankyou all for your support

It makes me feel a bit better in one way...
Having "capacity" means they consider she has the mental capacity to make her own decisions and understand the consequences, e.g to choose to eat, wash, get out of bed or not. But also things like whether she has carers come round, who she sees, where she lives. If they are right, I must be wrong and vice versa. The person I see most definitely cannot make any decisions, informed or otherwise. With my sister, both in person and on the phone, Mum is as lucid as I am. (which isn't saying much as she has caused me quite some stress!) My sister also has a psychology degree so she should be more informed about it all than me. Which may be one reason she can see through it and I couldn't. Mum has also been playing us off against each other "He/she takes better care of me than you... you just don't know how to look after me..." or even worse, "He/she hurts me, I need you to rescue me..."
Isn't it crazy that there is this massive gap people can fall into where they are clearly ill, where it is seriously affecting their behaviour to the point they hurt themselves, but they are still considered to be able to be responsible for themselves? It isn't just dementia, it covers all mental health issues but I am getting the dementia issue up close and personal right now.
If I am right, if Mum is as bad as she seems *to me* then she should be in 24 hour residential care. But the way she appears to others just isn't as bad...
I have to draw the conclusion she is manipulating me. Last year before her hip replacement she let her ex look after her and pretty much stay at her house all day. She phoned me up a lot saying he was emotionally and verbally abusing her and she was so scared of him she was contemplating suicide. So I got social services to talk to her while she was in the hospital and he couldn't be there looking over her shoulder. She got really upset and kept saying "This has to stop, he;s doing a great job, I don't know why M (me) has it in for him so badly, he's never done anything to her.... I love him, he's looking after me so well" and she banned social services from talking to me about her. Until of course she wanted to complain about him some more.
Weighing it all up, I have to conclude... She's doing this on purpose. Which makes me feel so betrayed and hateful towards her. Grrrr.

 

[Boredhousewife]

Hi Millicent

My Mum has always been that way to some extent. She was diagnosed with alzheimer's just last month but she has been unable to look after herself for over a year and has had some memory issues for about 2 years. She's always been quite feeble and easily worried. She got so anxious about driving that she just stopped doing it about 3 years ago and needed to be taken everywhere. She wont leave the house alone (unless it's to wake the neighbours in the middle of the night looking for mythical children who are in danger!) And she has always been the way you describe your Mum being. She has always been extravagantly attentions seeking. She used to claim no one loved her and threaten suicide if Dad was late home from work by more than 20 minutes. Maybe that is why it has been so hard to see that she has dementia. Maybe she didn't have it, and was just blagging us to start with. But now she has it. Either that or she has gone so deep into character that she's got herself into trouble and can't back out! But she has been talking about "when she gets better" so she may yet stage a miraculous recovery....

 

[Sue J]

It makes me feel a bit better in one way...
Having "capacity" means they consider she has the mental capacity to make her own decisions and understand the consequences, e.g to choose to eat, wash, get out of bed or not. But also things like whether she has carers come round, who she sees, where she lives. If they are right, I must be wrong and vice versa. The person I see most definitely cannot make any decisions, informed or otherwise. With my sister, both in person and on the phone, Mum is as lucid as I am. (which isn't saying much as she has caused me quite some stress!) My sister also has a psychology degree so she should be more informed about it all than me. Which may be one reason she can see through it and I couldn't. Mum has also been playing us off against each other "He/she takes better care of me than you... you just don't know how to look after me..." or even worse, "He/she hurts me, I need you to rescue me..."
Isn't it crazy that there is this massive gap people can fall into where they are clearly ill, where it is seriously affecting their behaviour to the point they hurt themselves, but they are still considered to be able to be responsible for themselves? It isn't just dementia, it covers all mental health issues but I am getting the dementia issue up close and personal right now.
If I am right, if Mum is as bad as she seems *to me* then she should be in 24 hour residential care. But the way she appears to others just isn't as bad...
I have to draw the conclusion she is manipulating me. Last year before her hip replacement she let her ex look after her and pretty much stay at her house all day. She phoned me up a lot saying he was emotionally and verbally abusing her and she was so scared of him she was contemplating suicide. So I got social services to talk to her while she was in the hospital and he couldn't be there looking over her shoulder. She got really upset and kept saying "This has to stop, he;s doing a great job, I don't know why M (me) has it in for him so badly, he's never done anything to her.... I love him, he's looking after me so well" and she banned social services from talking to me about her. Until of course she wanted to complain about him some more.
Weighing it all up, I have to conclude... She's doing this on purpose. Which makes me feel so betrayed and hateful towards her. Grrrr.

Hi Boredhousewife

I wish I could get my thoughts and words in place to respond to your post but I struggle with my language and expression, not all the time, and have spent 4 years trying to get help after a devastating unidentified illness affecting my brain and abilities. Your Mum is ill and current mental health care uses the 'capacity act' to not fully assess people - in my experience and opinion. If they considered people's needs and not their capacity outcomes would be better.

Your Mum is 'free' to be her 'ill' self with you, probably who she is closest to. With others she doesn't have that understanding so has to battle with the symptoms for fear that she really would be taken into care and the unknown. I too had a mother who was mentally sick all of my life and couldn't be 'normal'. Having my experiences has shown me something of what she suffered from the inside and it just makes me conscious of my own inadequacies at helping her in her deep suffering and what it is like when people on the outside have no idea of what is going on on the inside for the sufferer and leaves me with a deep sense of loss and pain.

Isn't it crazy that there is this massive gap people can fall into where they are clearly ill, where it is seriously affecting their behaviour to the point they hurt themselves, but they are still considered to be able to be responsible for themselves?

Please don't draw the conclusion that she is manipulating you as it will only serve to fuel hatred and anger but instead see her as someone falling into that

massive gap

whose needs are going unrecognised by others except you. Keep pushing for help and support for her and you as things can be better.
Best wishes
Sue

 

[kingmidas1962]

Was there a pre-existing tendency to be self centred before your mum had dementia?

I'm not sure if she could 'fake it' but I think people can be (either knowingly or unknowingly) manipulative if they are frightened, and underneath all the bluff and bluster there must be a part of her that knows something is very wrong, but she cannot vocalise it or even think it clearly.

As regards the "He/she takes better care of me than you... you just don't know how to look after me..." I get this from my mum, in reverse. She had a breakdown after my dad was diagnosed with dementia and went into emergency respite, and then permanent care. The problem with her is that NO ONE can look after her than I can, in her estimation - no one else is good enough and this puts enormous pressure on me (and therefore strain on my family)

Sue puts it wonderfully when she says:-

Your Mum is 'free' to be her 'ill' self with you, probably who she is closest to.

....which is what I get. Other people tell me how lovely mum is, what a sweet little old lady - when she has put me through hell....

Its obvious though, that you're definitely not alone, in being treated in a different way to everyone else by someone! The manipulation is sometimes intentional, and sometimes I feel its a reflex/unconscious defence mechanism because if the sufferer makes out they're OK to you ...then who will look after them?

 

[Boredhousewife]

I don't know which way to take it, whether I'm right and she's in desperate need that I am banging my head against the wall and not getting, or if the others are right and she's yanking my chain for attention because she's lonely but basically ok.
At the end of the day, if she honestly still has enough neurons firing to know what's best for her, then if she's in need of care but won't accept it, (because she thinks she can force me into leaving my life, my children and home, to come and care for her instead) then she must be aware she is self sabotaging. Which she has always done as a way of getting her own way. Maybe the best thing for all of us is to stop prolonging the situation, take a step back and remove myself and any schemes she has around me and let the professionals take over for a while. See how she really is, no pretense no smoke screens. Before I become ill with this.
Many thanks again for all your support.

 

[garnuft]

I feel its a reflex/unconscious defence mechanism because if the sufferer makes out they're OK to you ...then who will look after them?

Well said KM...that's spot on, IMO.

I think manipulation is very much part of this illness (and a number of other illnesses too).

I am in the same situation with my mother, there IS a degree of self-preservating manipulation going on and a determination that she doesn't need help...apart from my sister and I being with her 24/7. (we don't count and are spending time with her to avoid being at home).

She said to my sister that I was sleeping at hers because I'm having trouble with my OH

That is her way of coming out of it smelling of roses... it's her way of helping us, not that SHE needs help.

Mam went on the wander at New Year and her dementia has declined rapidly, to the extent that she does need 24 hour care.
But she doesn't accept that she needs help and Social Services can't do anything until another crisis occurs.

She can talk a good talk when she needs to.

It is with great pain that I have stepped back and I am having to force my sister to step back too, she is still trying to organise us into twice daily visits along with the newly introduced 3 daily care visits.

Mam will never accept she needs help until she is on her knees and it seems that is what must happen.

It's so worrying but sometimes you have no choice.
I think you should step back, you will be terrified but you are running out of options too.

Very best wishes.

 

[wobbly]

My dad was doubly incontinent for a good while before he went into the home and used to go in the garden, in a corner in his room, anywhere really. One day mum had got to crisis point after cleaning up nummerous times when he came in, pulled trousers down, crouched and performed by the kitchen table, mum shouted and was upset, he told her to f off and said "here's abit more for you" and did more!! Poor mum was convinced he was putting it on. The incontinence and lack of inhibition was the main reason he had to go into the home, mum just couldn't manage him and he would refuse to get washed or let her help.....

 

[TinaT]

Helping a person who has any form of dementia is never, ever easy to do. I'm looking at 'faking' from the perspective of a person who has been through all the emotions you are experiencing and has now lost her mother to dementia/cancer.

For at least two years she was 'ill' whenever I had something planned, yet all the hospital tests and doctors said she was well! I felt a pattern of behaviour was evident and consequently gave little sympathy when she 'had blackouts' and fell, when a neighbour of hers phoned me to tell me I was 'a rubbish daughter' and that my mother had been in bed ill all day (I had been with my mother all day the day before when she was fine, etc., etc., She most definately played neighbours off against me and I too felt very angry and upset and unable to defend myself against the unjust accusations this brought on my head. I could go on and on. The final straw came when I buried my husband on the Friday, was grieving very badly but on the Sunday I had to take her to A & E as she had another fall.

On New Years eve some two months later I had to take her yet again to A & E. She spent three weeks in hospital with doctors telling me there was absolutely nothing wrong with her and me insisting that I couldn't cope any longer on my own. The day before she was due for discharge, she complained of pain, was sent for a scan and that afternoon I was told she had terminal cancer with only weeks to live!!!

Can you imagine how I now feel?? Because of dementia no one ever got to grips with a very serious underlying illness and everything about her behaviour was put down to her 'putting it on' because of her mild dementia. She had always been deemed to have capacity and could quite clearly say she was not going into any care home but because of dementia could never tell anyone exactly where she had pain. The pain and the falling were never properly diagnosed until it was too late for me to really understand, be a good caring daughter and help her in a better way.

I bitterly regret that now. She's gone and I can't have back that time I could have been protecting her better.

xxTinaT

 

[Forestridge]

It's really difficult. My Mother has without doubt been playing my Brother and I off against each other but it was only when the CH said that we realised. My Brother hasn't seen her for 5 years and didn't realise the true extent of her disease and got he out of the CH to try live in care. By all accounts it was pretty traumatic for him with all the pen calls, I had stepped back for a bit.

I have a psychology degree but it doesn't help with any of this whatsoever . When I wasn't involved much when she had the live in carers, I was under the impression everything was fine. Mum scores well on the MMSE but poorly on the ACE-R test. She can hold it together for a period of time and be very convincing but she can't maintain this.

 

[sistermillicent]

Tina, we can only do what seems right at the time. One of the main reasons, actually the very main reason I have run myself ragged at times with my parents is that I don't want to ever think I didn't give it my all. However, when the time comes I am certain I will feel i should have done more.

Also you are so right about dementia "masking" symptoms of something serious, or giving people the excuse to ignore them. But I am afraid it is not just dementia, it is old age and/or people with mental health issues. Experience over christmas with elderly friends has proved that, and the funeral is next week.

However, your post has made me sit up and note that I still have a mum

 

[SueENG]

Faking it?

How could you tell if a person is faking dementia? Or at least that they are pretending to be worse than they really are, to get attention?
I have posted about my Mum, just now. But I have also been talking to my sister on the phone. When my Mum talks to me, she is so confused and literally cannot work out how to get the overhead lights to turn on and off. My sister however has never seen this in her and tells me she suspects Mum to be putting it on because she knows I will patiently try to talk her through finding a light switch and turning it on. For example.
Mum's psychiatrists thinks she has capacity. So does her GP and social worker.
I had Mum to stay over Christmas. She was ok for a couple of days, but I noticed she was really clingy and followed me around everywhere. She appeared scared of my partner and kept asking when my children would be "going home" She hated it that I had to go out to my evening job. When I wanted to go an wash up the dishes, he asked me if I wanted her to go home seeing as I wasn't spending any time with her. On Xmas day she woke up in some sort of massive delusional episode where she said she had been poisoned by my two kids. We ended up in A&E for the whole day, where she was as happy as Larry all the day.
Can she be putting it on! If she is I think I might do something drastic as she has all but ruined my life these past 2 years.

In my experience I used to think mum was trying it on but I now realise that she had good days and bad days and still does. Also she would blag it if she could and sometimes be very plausible particularly in company.

 

[Boredhousewife]

It's all so horrible and so hopeless, to be so helpless. I love my Mum, but the person I love is gone, or at least buried under this disease and I can't fight it for her. Like she's under an evil spell and I can't save her. I can't take it all if I don't hold on to the fact my dear Mum is still in there, and sometimes she comes to the fore. But thinking it's her doing some of this is killing me, and knowing she's in there scared and alone is driving me mad... Mostly I think... My poor Mum. If I don't get a handle on it, I'll be in the care home along with her. If I can just make a little progress, get her into a care home where she's safe and not alone, fed, washed, comfortable... maybe I can rest. Maybe I can feel I haven't let her down. Thank you all for sharing your stories, it helps so much to connect with people who understand. Xxx

 

[garnuft]

I adore my mother.

I think it takes courage to make a decision such as you contemplate.


The temptation is always to avoid feeling the grief that such a final decision brings.

So we dither and drown.

Life brings you to dead ends sometimes. No choices.

If you have done all that you could, at the time it was required, then there is NO REASON to feel guilt.

I KNOW I am doing all that can be done and should be done, with a lot more besides, for my mother.

Whatever happens, if her death turns out to be traumatic, it won't be because of the want of me.

Do the right thing with what you have available at the time.

That's all a person can do. X

 

[otiamaria]

Finally I know that it isn't just me that has wondered how much of the symptoms my mom presents might be purposeful manipulations. As I read each post in this thread, I exclaimed, "OMG, I could've written this! This is exactly like what I'm dealing with!" My mom is a master manipulator and always has been. There has never been room in her world for anyone but her. She abused my father when he was alive, and abused me when I was growing up (when she wasn't neglecting me. ) There are days when I'm convinced I'm being taken for a fool. Other days, I believe otherwise. No matter how you slice it, though, this is sickness. No one in their right mind would put another through this. One way to get an idea of how much if this is real is to set up audio or video and record her when she is by herself. If you hear or see unusual behavior then, she's probably not faking.
In my situation, I would rather be the fool for my mom. I would never be able to live with myself if I showed contempt toward her and later learned that she was innocent. As time passes, I find that she is declining even more. Which means that she may have been milking the situation for her own selfish reasons for AWHILE, but the symptoms..., although exaggerated, were genuine.

Wish I had a magic wand so I could wave it over all of us and our loved ones to make this go away.
(((HUGS)))

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