Brother transferring tens of thousands to his own account

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Brenda16, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. Brenda16

    Brenda16 Registered User

    Feb 13, 2015
    Not applicable
    Hi Everyone.
    I have LpoA (jointly and severly(?) together with my brother.Mum is in late stage Altzeimers and in a care home. I live on the other side of the world for most of the year and just come home for Xmas (not UK) and have just seen Mum‘s bank statements for 2017. My brother has moved an enormous amount to his own accounts! He has placed 50,000 ln Premium Bonds in her name and 50,000 in his name.I‘ve told him that all of Mum‘s money must be in Mum‘s name but he just won‘t listen. I‘ve pleaded with him to put the monies bach otherwise I‘ll have to report him. There are other transactions which look like tax evasion (having his customers paying bills from him into Mum‘s account), using Mum‘s credit card for holidays and, and, and.

    I love my brother dearly and I don‘t want him to get into trouble but I know that I am also responsible and now that I know what is going on, that I could be accused of aiding and abetting.

    My Mum has her own lawyer who represents her interests but has no insight into her finances.
    Should I contact her lawyer or go directly to the Office of the Guardia. I haven‘t lived in the UK for decades and don‘t know how these things work.

    I‘m leaving Europe next week and would really appreciate your thoughts and perhaps recommendations.
    Thank you
  2. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    I would first speak to the lawyer who may well recommend calling the Police.

  3. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    #3 Shedrech, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
    hi Brenda16
    thank goodness some of the premium bonds are in your mum's name - do you happen to have any numbers as you, as your mum's Attorney, could open an online account and track her bonds

    I do agree that your mum's solicitor needs to be informed - the police may have come back at you and said it's a family matter for you to sort out if it were only a matter of your brother 'spending' your mum's money - however if he is using her account to shift business money around, that's another matter and he needs to be shocked into stopping and reversing all transactions - the police may provide that shock

    personally, I would open a new account for your mum, maybe even at a different bank/building society and have all your mum's income paid into the new account - then set up direct debits for any payments out eg her care home fees - if you organise that you manage the account online, you will be able to monitor it easily and have no paper statements

    then open new savings accounts and transfer all money you can

    have a sensible amount debited to the care home each month for your mum's personal expenses, or ask them to bill the solicitor or you - the solicitor could send on the bill to you

    contact all institutions your mum has involvement with, including her care home, and make a change of her address for correspondence to that of her solicitors, so that they have sight of all correspondence before they send them on to you - or use your own (not sure if an overseas address is acceptable) but keeping the solicitor involved, although they will charge fees, may be wise given the circumstances

    of course, as joint Attorney, your brother could register that he is Attorney and gain access to new accounts, but he would first have to know where they are - and, hopefully, he will realise that his actions have to stop so may not try to gain access

    it's a horrible situation that your brother has put you all in - I hope he sees sense - whether he does or not, it is time for you to take control - not easy, I appreciate, your hands will be shaking with each letter you write or type - it'll be worth the emotional energy drain to get your mum's finances safe and working only for her

    it may help to talk things through with one of the folk on the AS Helpline
    0300 222 11 22
    Helpline opening hours:
    Monday to Wednesday
    9am – 8pm
    Thursday and Friday 9am – 5pm
    Saturday and Sunday 10am – 4pm

    best wishes
  4. MorryLou

    MorryLou Registered User

    Jun 19, 2017
    I know you don't want your brother to get into trouble but unfortunately he has got himself into trouble and you should call the police as well as his lawyer. This is a large amount of money we are talking about and it is theft and fraud. Realistically he is not going to say sorry and pay the money back is he?
    Unfortunately, there are members of family in this world (who will take advantage of the vulnerable), who think that they are entitled to have their inheritance, and have it now, no matter what!:(
  5. Duggies-girl

    Duggies-girl Registered User

    Sep 6, 2017
    Your brother is aware of what he is doing and is digging himself into a deep hole. He needs to stop at once. He is not allowed to use your mums credit card for holidays etc As another poster pointed out this is theft and fraud and your mum is a vulnerable person. He is abusing his position of POA and will likely be prosecuted if found out.
  6. Amy in the US

    Amy in the US Registered User

    Feb 28, 2015
    @Brenda16, it won't be you getting your brother into trouble, he has got himself into trouble!

    I'd waste no time in calling her lawyer, and possibly also the police, the OPG, and I'm not sure who else. I'm not familiar enough with how things work in the UK, but others here will know, or you might call the helpline for advice, as above.

    I'd have no further contact with your brother until you've gotten advice from a legal professional and/or the relevant authorities.

    I'm so sorry about the situation, but your mum is lucky to have you looking out for her interests.
  7. Amethyst59

    Amethyst59 Registered User

    Jul 3, 2017
    Just a thought...I have heard of a very similar situation in another family. When the ‘thief ‘was confronted by the rest of the family, he did indeed pay everything back. I think he had convinced himself that he could increase the money by investing etc...and maybe your brother put £50k in his own name in premium bonds because of the personal limit?
    I am not by any means or in any way condoning his actions...but I think if it were me, I would be more inclined to confront my brother first, rather than go to the authorities. This is just my personal opinion...I am not advising you.
  8. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    North Manchester
    I agree with Amethyst59.
    He may be trying to double your Mum's investment in Premium Bonds which he considers to be a wise investment and not have any intention of pocketing any wins.
    I've held back saying this because of the plural accounts.

    He may also be using your Mum's account to hide from HMRC business payments to him , do the holidays and payments roughly balance, remember there may be a 'float' not yet spent,

    None of the above is correct proceedure,
    Before bringing in the relevant authorities, have a meriting with him (+family?) and stress that unless he remedies everything you will formally contact the OPG and HMRC. Point out that as joint and several attorney you might be held responsible for his actions.

    Although as a joint and several attorney he has the power to move sums of £50k around I feel that is reasonable to expect him to discuss it with you.
  9. Normaleila

    Normaleila Registered User

    Jun 4, 2016
    Hi Brenda 16. This is so difficult for you. I'd be devastated if I had to fall out with my brother. But as you know this is wrong and you could be (wrongly) implicated. What if the bonds in his name won £1 million? Wouldn't he be tempted to start spending it - and end up in even more trouble? He must be stopped. If you can, have one more try to get him to sort things - give him 48 hours to email solicitor and/or OPG (copying you in) saying that he needs to regularise matters and you had nothing to do with it. After 48 hours- report him. It could save him from jail - or bankruptcy if he spends your mother's money and then can't pay it back. Tough love. Good luck.
  10. Chemmy

    Chemmy Registered User

    Nov 7, 2011
    As Brenda16 said in her original post that

    I would have thought that if if his intentions were innocent but misguided, he would have taken the opportunity to explain that then.
  11. Onmyown

    Onmyown Registered User

    May 30, 2017
    So sorry you are going through this but this is not a family matter. Contact her solicitor ASAP this dosnt sound right. My brother has taken my mum's credit card and I've no idea what he's doing with it but I've warned him that he had better have receipts as eventually her solicitor will be informed none of us have poa so he has no right to do this.
  12. Louise7

    Louise7 Registered User

    Mar 25, 2016
    Yes, the limit is £50,000. Personally I'd make sure that there was definitely misuse of your Mother's funds/financial abuse going on before I reported it. As above, talk to your brother before jumping to any conclusions based on just reading the bank statements.

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