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Being accused of misusing fathers account

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Upset and tired, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. Upset and tired

    Upset and tired Registered User

    Nov 6, 2018
    35
    My husband and I cared for his father who had Alzheimer’s for 2 years. His mother couldn’t cope with him and it was left to my husband to look after him. During the last 3 weeks of his life his wife and daughter went on holiday and didn’t seem to care that he was dying. To allow him to die at home after being in a nursing home for 3 months my husband cared for him 24 hours a day. He had a joint account with him with no power of attorney and withdrew money to ensure he had all the equipment he needed before social services would allow him to come home. It was also agreed with his mother that he could be paid the same amount she would have paid had we had round the clock care. Since his death we then cared for his mother for 2 years when it was decided that she would go and live with her daughter as we could no longer cope.
    His daughter is now accusing my husband of misusing his account. She and my husband both have power of attorney for his mother, who is still alive and mentally alert. She is threatening my husband of abuse of their monies which we believe is due to the fact that there is a large estate involved and she wants total control. We are at our wits end and the stress is making us ill. Any advise on how to proceed as we are at a loss why a family member can be so cruel.
     
  2. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    67,087
    Kent
    If you have kept accounts and receipts there shouldn`t be any problem because you will be able to prove all money was spent in your father in law`s best interests.
     
  3. Upset and tired

    Upset and tired Registered User

    Nov 6, 2018
    35
    Unfortunately we can’t find all the receipts and because it’s over 3 years ago we can’t remember every detail which in hindsight was our error. Trouble is when your dealing with all the emotions of looking after your dad on your own keeping receipts aren’t the priority. You do everything I. Their best interest without thinking how it come back and bite you.
     
  4. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,555
    Salford
    Hi and welcome to TP
    If your husband had a joint account with his dad then when he passed away the money goes automatically to your husband and is not part of the later father's estate so there's really no need to account for how money from a joint account is spent to anyone no matter who paid what in the money in a joint account goes to the surviving account holder.
    I think you've answered your own question "why can a family member be so cruel" when you said that "there is a large estate involved", says it all really.
    If the mother still has capacity them personally I'd be telling her to make a new POA without the sister's name on it just your husband's name but as she lives with the sister that would be difficult.
    K
     
  5. Upset and tired

    Upset and tired Registered User

    Nov 6, 2018
    35
     
  6. Normaleila

    Normaleila Registered User

    Jun 4, 2016
    495
    I assume it's your husband's sister and not his mother who is making the accusations? There was no POA for his father and your husband had a joint account with his father? If there was no POA and no one applied for deputyship then I can't see that anyone can now say your FIL lacked capacity and the joint account should have been closed. In which case, both your husband and his father could spend the money in the account as they wished. Once FIL died, i believe the balance in the joint account passed to your husband.
    Accusations are cruel - but what are they proposing, or threatening, to do? Who was the executor of FIL's estate? Do they have an opinion?
     
  7. Upset and tired

    Upset and tired Registered User

    Nov 6, 2018
    35
    When he died there was money in the account and we took of his dads name and put his mums name on as joint account as she was entitled to the money and she continued to use this account with my husband. She was generous with my husband and would give him gifts and we have a signed authority from her detailing on how she wanted the account managed. She would transfer money from her sole account into the joint account and my husband would then draw out the cash. This meant that she didn’t have to give her sole account PIN number. Any monies that we believe we owe her we have agreed to pay back into her sole account. She is happy with everything but believe her daughter us coercing her to have works done on her empty home so it can be rented out as she wants the family home when mum dies. I think we have been naive and are paying the price.
     
  8. Upset and tired

    Upset and tired Registered User

    Nov 6, 2018
    35
    Yes it’s my sister in law making the accusations the latest being this evening threatening that she would go to the authority dealing with misuse of power of attorney if we didn’t supply her with all of the statements relating to fathers account. We have already supplied the last 3 years which has picked to pieces. I’m not sure that her mother is aware of her action or if she is putting pressure on her. When we spoke to mum a few days ago she said she had no concerns over the matter. The sister could understand why my husband was angry and upset even though she was accusing him of theft!!
     
  9. Upset and tired

    Upset and tired Registered User

    Nov 6, 2018
    35
    There was no power of attorney for FIL and all monies from his estate went to his wife. Can people with power of attorney ask for information before they had the poa. We have nothing to hide but am reluctant to give her everything she demands that she isn’t entitled to
     
  10. Normaleila

    Normaleila Registered User

    Jun 4, 2016
    495
    From the further details you've given, I can't see that this account is your SIL's business for the period before your FIL's death. Don"t give her statements or info for that period.
    Since it became a joint account with your MIL, the situation is slightly different. Does your MIL still have capacity? If so, she simply has a joint account with her son and again it's not your SIL's business. If she no longer has capacity, the joint account must be closed and an account opened by the attorney(s). The problem then will be how the attorneys are going to work together in her best interest.
     
  11. love.dad.but..

    love.dad.but.. Registered User

    Jan 16, 2014
    3,662
    Kent
    Where there's a will or presumed valuable estate there's often a greedy relative. I am sorry that you and your OH are having to deal with this stress from the sister. In hindsight keeping accurate records would have been advisable but sister would still presumably question expenditure regardless. However as no poa was held for your fil frankly there isn't much I would have thought she can do about it and she has no right to demand looking at anything to do with the joint account held between your OH/FIL so I would not not give her any information, bank statements for that period. If MIL no longer has mental capacity then the situation with the subsequent joint OH/FIL is different and will need to be closed with a new bank ac in MIL sole name and attorney registered to assist. If MIL still has capacity it is up to her not your SIL to manage that ac alongside her instructions to your OH and again your SIL has no right to any details. Are the attorneys for MIL joint and several or just joint?
     
  12. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    6,537
    Yorkshire
    hi @Upset and tired
    personally, I don't think your husband's sister understands the limitations of the powers of an Attorney
    you say there was no LPA in place for your husband's father, so no-one misused a non-existant power
    and as your husband's sister was not his Attorney she had and has no right to any information about his financial affairs
    the duties/powers of an Attorney end on the death of the donor anyway
    at that point it is the responsibility of the Executors of the will to deal with matters and I assume that was all done after the death of your husband's dad, which was the time for his sister to raise any concerns
    if your husband's mum has full capacity she herself is responsible for managing her own financial affairs and her daughter can only get involved with her permission - so as his mum was happy with arrangements, it's not for her daughter to demand details of anyone's finances
    if your husband's sister wants to try to make some legal case, I don't myself see that she has a leg to stand on
    probably best now, though, to separate out all accounts and for each person to have their own accounts
     
  13. Upset and tired

    Upset and tired Registered User

    Nov 6, 2018
    35
    The joint account has now been stopped only after RBS gave SIL details of my husbands private account... A complaint was made re breach of data protection and upheld. By that time the damage had been done. We have closed that account with MIL signing the appropriate forms. There are no joint account in place. The ironic thing is that she has told us that she does all her mothers outgoings for her staying at her home in cash so she doesn’t have to disclose it to the taxman. It’s very tempting do go tit for tat but that would be going down to her level.
     
  14. Upset and tired

    Upset and tired Registered User

    Nov 6, 2018
    35
    Mil has full capacity so unsure if SIL has any rights to be asking for all the info. Should this not happen when death occurs and the estate does to the solicitor?The really sad thing is that MIL is stuck in the middle and her daughter is in control and prevents us from having a private conversation with mum.
     
  15. Louise7

    Louise7 Registered User

    Mar 25, 2016
    555
    A financial power of attorney is not reliant on mental capacity - it can be used prior to that if the donor (mil) agrees. Has the power of attorney actually been lodged with the bank? If not, then SIL has no right to be asking for anything relating to MIL's finances.
     
  16. Upset and tired

    Upset and tired Registered User

    Nov 6, 2018
    35
    I believe the banks were notified at the time. My feeling is that at this stage both power of attorneys are invoked and passed to an independent person ie solicitor. I believe that SIL is more interested in her own needs than anybody else’s.
     
  17. Upset and tired

    Upset and tired Registered User

    Nov 6, 2018
    35
    SIL has already been in touch with RBS who have advised her that they cannot release any information without my husbands permission. This is when the threats commenced.
     
  18. Ducky601

    Ducky601 Registered User

    Jul 24, 2018
    93
    Hi
    I can’t see that your husband is obliged to be giving any information to his sister regarding the previous joint bank account he held with his late father. Do you think the sister is being difficult because your husband has received ‘gifts’ from his mom? It’s up to his mom of course what ‘gifts’ she wants to make ... i think if the sister contacts again, i’d say (very calmly) that you don’t need to provide anything further and leave it at that, don’t be bullied by her. From what you’re saying, I can’t see what she can do other than get herself into a ‘tiz’ but she has to be mindful, if she’s going to ‘report, what exactly can she report? From where I’m sitting, i’d say zilch.
     
  19. Upset and tired

    Upset and tired Registered User

    Nov 6, 2018
    35
    Thanks for the advice and support. I believe this all stems from the fact that MIL has helped us financially and looked after us. Having seen FIL suffer from Alzheimer’s and then MIL being diagnosed terminal and being sole carers for 5 years is hard and we are both at a very low ebb. We’re both in our 60s and I I have suffered strokes and heart condition. This is not what we expected when we retired. Feeling a little sorry for myself and desperately worried how this is affecting my husband
     
  20. Ducky601

    Ducky601 Registered User

    Jul 24, 2018
    93
    I really empathise and it’s awful how so-called family can behave ....at least on here you can ask anything or vent and that’s a very good thing. Best wishes x
     

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